Comments on: This is my body . . . or, Sally Quinn, PZ Myers, and the coming millennium http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/this-is-my-body-or-sally-quinn-pz-myers-and-the-coming-millennium/ Fri, 10 Feb 2012 00:20:29 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Wayne V http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/this-is-my-body-or-sally-quinn-pz-myers-and-the-coming-millennium/comment-page-1/#comment-18071 Wayne V Fri, 17 Oct 2008 15:48:51 +0000 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/this-is-my-body-or-sally-quinn-pz-myers-and-the-coming-millennium/#comment-18071 Well I certainly disagree with Myer and think that even rational people can consider the Euchrist more than a mere saltine. Was Quinn out of line? I don't pretend to know bit if Tim was a Mormon I imagine with some certainty that that Tim really would be smiling down and saying, “We’re winning you over after all, aren’t we Sister Sal?” He might even glowing about the seed he had planted in Sister Sally. I didn't know the history of water/wine but enjoy that, like many parts of the Mormon's faith, it seems to ignore precise theological explanations and jump to saying this is a revelation or this is how it happened and this is what God told me. Hopefully it not to long until we can switch back to wine (not because I'm a fan of wine, but rather because it would be nice to have Christ back). Excellent post Matt everything was engaging and clear. Well I certainly disagree with Myer and think that even rational people can consider the Euchrist more than a mere saltine.
Was Quinn out of line? I don’t pretend to know bit if Tim was a Mormon I imagine with some certainty that that Tim really would be smiling down and saying, “We’re winning you over after all, aren’t we Sister Sal?” He might even glowing about the seed he had planted in Sister Sally.
I didn’t know the history of water/wine but enjoy that, like many parts of the Mormon’s faith, it seems to ignore precise theological explanations and jump to saying this is a revelation or this is how it happened and this is what God told me. Hopefully it not to long until we can switch back to wine (not because I’m a fan of wine, but rather because it would be nice to have Christ back).
Excellent post Matt everything was engaging and clear.

]]> By: Clark http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/this-is-my-body-or-sally-quinn-pz-myers-and-the-coming-millennium/comment-page-1/#comment-11557 Clark Tue, 05 Aug 2008 01:56:02 +0000 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/this-is-my-body-or-sally-quinn-pz-myers-and-the-coming-millennium/#comment-11557 That's a fair point Matt. I didn't mean to say it was typical of all Catholics, just that I think there was more reaction from that community than one would have encountered in a Mormon community. Which isn't to say Mormons don't have buttons that get pushed and people over react. That’s a fair point Matt. I didn’t mean to say it was typical of all Catholics, just that I think there was more reaction from that community than one would have encountered in a Mormon community. Which isn’t to say Mormons don’t have buttons that get pushed and people over react.

]]> By: matt b http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/this-is-my-body-or-sally-quinn-pz-myers-and-the-coming-millennium/comment-page-1/#comment-11554 matt b Mon, 04 Aug 2008 23:37:26 +0000 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/this-is-my-body-or-sally-quinn-pz-myers-and-the-coming-millennium/#comment-11554 Clark - I'm hesitant to make sweeping generalizations about "the Catholics" or "the Mormons." There's the Catholic Defense League, the official Catholic hierarchy, random angry Catholics, etc. Similarly, there's FAIR, the Quorum of the Twelve, random angry Mormons, etc. The head of the Catholic Defense League expressing disapproval is similar to the head of FAIR stating something; neither's representative of the group as a whole. Similarly, the actions of Sampson Avard don't represent all Mormons. Clark – I’m hesitant to make sweeping generalizations about “the Catholics” or “the Mormons.” There’s the Catholic Defense League, the official Catholic hierarchy, random angry Catholics, etc. Similarly, there’s FAIR, the Quorum of the Twelve, random angry Mormons, etc. The head of the Catholic Defense League expressing disapproval is similar to the head of FAIR stating something; neither’s representative of the group as a whole. Similarly, the actions of Sampson Avard don’t represent all Mormons.

]]> By: Clark http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/this-is-my-body-or-sally-quinn-pz-myers-and-the-coming-millennium/comment-page-1/#comment-11551 Clark Mon, 04 Aug 2008 23:15:30 +0000 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/this-is-my-body-or-sally-quinn-pz-myers-and-the-coming-millennium/#comment-11551 But Matt, I don't think Mormons would react if someone broke in and desecrated the temple the way the Catholics did. And that happens. We've all seen the garments for sale on eBay, the folks who snuck a tape recorder into the temple, the people who bought a recommend on eBay to go through the temple, etc. Compared to past persecutions it's so minor that while we may be pissed off it's ultimately much ado about nothing. Not even on par with someone coming in during the middle of Sacrament meeting and vandalizing things. I'm frankly more annoyed at the guys yelling at me at Temple Square while I try to go to conference. But Matt, I don’t think Mormons would react if someone broke in and desecrated the temple the way the Catholics did. And that happens. We’ve all seen the garments for sale on eBay, the folks who snuck a tape recorder into the temple, the people who bought a recommend on eBay to go through the temple, etc. Compared to past persecutions it’s so minor that while we may be pissed off it’s ultimately much ado about nothing.

Not even on par with someone coming in during the middle of Sacrament meeting and vandalizing things.

I’m frankly more annoyed at the guys yelling at me at Temple Square while I try to go to conference.

]]> By: matt b http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/this-is-my-body-or-sally-quinn-pz-myers-and-the-coming-millennium/comment-page-1/#comment-11544 matt b Mon, 04 Aug 2008 19:54:30 +0000 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/this-is-my-body-or-sally-quinn-pz-myers-and-the-coming-millennium/#comment-11544 DJ - That's not quite what I meant. I'd lump death threats into taking the low road. Rather, my comment was an attempt to find some common ground. A fair number of people have acted inappropriately here. DJ – That’s not quite what I meant. I’d lump death threats into taking the low road. Rather, my comment was an attempt to find some common ground. A fair number of people have acted inappropriately here.

]]> By: djinn http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/this-is-my-body-or-sally-quinn-pz-myers-and-the-coming-millennium/comment-page-1/#comment-11543 djinn Mon, 04 Aug 2008 19:40:23 +0000 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/this-is-my-body-or-sally-quinn-pz-myers-and-the-coming-millennium/#comment-11543 Are you serious? You really think death threats (in the case of Prof. Myers, against family members as well) are within the rough category "allowed to be upset" due to something thought sacred, but mass produced and worth pennies at most, being mishandled? I realize this is tangential to your main point; roughly that the literal transformation of bread and wine into Christs' body in Catholicism, is no less a potent transformation to the partaker in Mormonism, even though the bread and water are but symbols. But in any case, presumably, the symbolism, the meaning, is of some sort of Christian charity, not particularly well demonstrated by said death threat makers? Are you serious? You really think death threats (in the case of Prof. Myers, against family members as well) are within the rough category “allowed to be upset” due to something thought sacred, but mass produced and worth pennies at most, being mishandled?

I realize this is tangential to your main point; roughly that the literal transformation of bread and wine into Christs’ body in Catholicism, is no less a potent transformation to the partaker in Mormonism, even though the bread and water are but symbols. But in any case, presumably, the symbolism, the meaning, is of some sort of Christian charity, not particularly well demonstrated by said death threat makers?

]]> By: matt b http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/this-is-my-body-or-sally-quinn-pz-myers-and-the-coming-millennium/comment-page-1/#comment-11539 matt b Mon, 04 Aug 2008 17:49:45 +0000 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/this-is-my-body-or-sally-quinn-pz-myers-and-the-coming-millennium/#comment-11539 djinn - I think no side should take the low road, beginning with the student who participated in a religious ritual primarily to subvert it. Certainly death threats are not appropriate, but should not Catholics be allowed to be upset that things they consider sacred were mishandled? I'd have used consubstantiation; but unfortunately, no Lutherans make an appearance here. djinn – I think no side should take the low road, beginning with the student who participated in a religious ritual primarily to subvert it. Certainly death threats are not appropriate, but should not Catholics be allowed to be upset that things they consider sacred were mishandled?

I’d have used consubstantiation; but unfortunately, no Lutherans make an appearance here.

]]> By: djinn http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/this-is-my-body-or-sally-quinn-pz-myers-and-the-coming-millennium/comment-page-1/#comment-11538 djinn Mon, 04 Aug 2008 17:27:15 +0000 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/this-is-my-body-or-sally-quinn-pz-myers-and-the-coming-millennium/#comment-11538 BTW, I love the word "consubstantiation," yet rarely find the opportunity to drop it, lightly, into conversation. I think you missed your chance. BTW, I love the word “consubstantiation,” yet rarely find the opportunity to drop it, lightly, into conversation. I think you missed your chance.

]]> By: djinn http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/this-is-my-body-or-sally-quinn-pz-myers-and-the-coming-millennium/comment-page-1/#comment-11527 djinn Mon, 04 Aug 2008 15:07:26 +0000 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/this-is-my-body-or-sally-quinn-pz-myers-and-the-coming-millennium/#comment-11527 A young man took a consecrated wafer back to his seat in a Catholic church. For this, he received death threats and threats of expulsion from his college. It is the juxtaposition of the harshness of the response with the mildness of the "crime," that provoked the phrase "It's a frackin' cracker." A human being is more important than a, uh, cracker, even if blessed, don't you think? A young man took a consecrated wafer back to his seat in a Catholic church. For this, he received death threats and threats of expulsion from his college. It is the juxtaposition of the harshness of the response with the mildness of the “crime,” that provoked the phrase “It’s a frackin’ cracker.” A human being is more important than a, uh, cracker, even if blessed, don’t you think?

]]> By: matt b. http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/this-is-my-body-or-sally-quinn-pz-myers-and-the-coming-millennium/comment-page-1/#comment-11508 matt b. Mon, 04 Aug 2008 07:24:23 +0000 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/this-is-my-body-or-sally-quinn-pz-myers-and-the-coming-millennium/#comment-11508 Clark - In theory I agree; the point, though, is that, unlike for Mormons and other memorialists, to Catholics the Host is <em>not </em>merely a symbol; it is, in fact, sanctified in the same way (or perhaps even more intensely) than the interior of temples are. Clark – In theory I agree; the point, though, is that, unlike for Mormons and other memorialists, to Catholics the Host is not merely a symbol; it is, in fact, sanctified in the same way (or perhaps even more intensely) than the interior of temples are.

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