<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: So much depends/ upon/ the prayer of/ a young/ farm boy/ alone/ in a grove/ of trees.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/so-much-depends-upon-the-prayer-of-a-young-farm-boy-alone-in-a-grove-of-trees-2/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/so-much-depends-upon-the-prayer-of-a-young-farm-boy-alone-in-a-grove-of-trees-2/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 00:20:29 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: stan</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/so-much-depends-upon-the-prayer-of-a-young-farm-boy-alone-in-a-grove-of-trees-2/comment-page-1/#comment-59970</link>
		<dc:creator>stan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2010 05:05:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=887#comment-59970</guid>
		<description>Liz! I just made the WCW connection--brilliant! ...but what has it all got to do with white chickens?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Liz! I just made the WCW connection&#8211;brilliant! &#8230;but what has it all got to do with white chickens?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Elizabeth</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/so-much-depends-upon-the-prayer-of-a-young-farm-boy-alone-in-a-grove-of-trees-2/comment-page-1/#comment-33424</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 15:56:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=887#comment-33424</guid>
		<description>Eric, I am sure your attempts are neither naive nor juvenile. &lt;a href=&quot;http://books.google.com/books?id=DoelY_m7Ry4C&amp;printsec=frontcover&amp;dq=great+christian+thinkers#PPP1,M1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;This book&lt;/a&gt; is a run-down of seven major Christian theologians, beginning with Paul and ending with Karl Barth, the 20th-century Protestant theologian I mentioned. Familiarity with these thinkers will give you a great foundation for further exploration. Augustine&#039;s &lt;em&gt;Confessions&lt;/em&gt; does not perhaps represent systematic theological thinking (it is spiritual autobiography), but is a foundational text in Western Christianity. Also, dive into &lt;a href=&quot;http://summatheologica.wordpress.com/about/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;interfaith dialogue&lt;/a&gt;, which will help you become more theologically conversant in your own and others&#039; traditions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric, I am sure your attempts are neither naive nor juvenile. <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=DoelY_m7Ry4C&amp;printsec=frontcover&amp;dq=great+christian+thinkers#PPP1,M1" rel="nofollow">This book</a> is a run-down of seven major Christian theologians, beginning with Paul and ending with Karl Barth, the 20th-century Protestant theologian I mentioned. Familiarity with these thinkers will give you a great foundation for further exploration. Augustine&#8217;s <em>Confessions</em> does not perhaps represent systematic theological thinking (it is spiritual autobiography), but is a foundational text in Western Christianity. Also, dive into <a href="http://summatheologica.wordpress.com/about/" rel="nofollow">interfaith dialogue</a>, which will help you become more theologically conversant in your own and others&#8217; traditions.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: smb</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/so-much-depends-upon-the-prayer-of-a-young-farm-boy-alone-in-a-grove-of-trees-2/comment-page-1/#comment-33412</link>
		<dc:creator>smb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 13:36:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=887#comment-33412</guid>
		<description>#12: Some people really like N.T. Wright.  I think an urbane apologist for another faith could be a very nice introduction to the broader world of scholarship, and Wright is probably best in class.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#12: Some people really like N.T. Wright.  I think an urbane apologist for another faith could be a very nice introduction to the broader world of scholarship, and Wright is probably best in class.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Eric Nielson</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/so-much-depends-upon-the-prayer-of-a-young-farm-boy-alone-in-a-grove-of-trees-2/comment-page-1/#comment-33406</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Nielson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 12:54:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=887#comment-33406</guid>
		<description>Elizabeth:

This is a great post.  Thanks.

You give three recommendations in your post -

1) that we acknowledge, learn, and understand the myriad and interlacing forms of God-talk that much of the world’s populace use or are familiar with; 

2) that we know theological history, the history of God; 

3) and finally that we ultimately make God the true content of our discourse

I sometimes make some naive, juvenile attempts at being an amature theologian.  Do you have some specific suggestions in how a common church member can make progress in these areas?  Are there some simple, introductory books you might recommend?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elizabeth:</p>
<p>This is a great post.  Thanks.</p>
<p>You give three recommendations in your post -</p>
<p>1) that we acknowledge, learn, and understand the myriad and interlacing forms of God-talk that much of the world’s populace use or are familiar with; </p>
<p>2) that we know theological history, the history of God; </p>
<p>3) and finally that we ultimately make God the true content of our discourse</p>
<p>I sometimes make some naive, juvenile attempts at being an amature theologian.  Do you have some specific suggestions in how a common church member can make progress in these areas?  Are there some simple, introductory books you might recommend?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Drew</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/so-much-depends-upon-the-prayer-of-a-young-farm-boy-alone-in-a-grove-of-trees-2/comment-page-1/#comment-33346</link>
		<dc:creator>Drew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 23:55:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=887#comment-33346</guid>
		<description>I enjoyed reading your blog and the comments on it. My grandfather was a seminary teacher in the church education system and studied a lot. He tried to impart his knowlage to his children and grandchildren. But what I learned from him and my parents is that membership in God&#039;s church is an individual thing with assistance from those around you physicaly and from insiration from God through the Holy Ghost. 

Understanding other religions and their vocabulary helps greatly in being able to share and explain about the church and its history. But it is an individual journey and each person has to choose to take it or not. I have taught my wife and children as best I can. But just as you did they have to study, pray, fast ect. for them selves to get the confirmation of the Spirit. To get that spirital growth and understanding or revelation unto themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I enjoyed reading your blog and the comments on it. My grandfather was a seminary teacher in the church education system and studied a lot. He tried to impart his knowlage to his children and grandchildren. But what I learned from him and my parents is that membership in God&#8217;s church is an individual thing with assistance from those around you physicaly and from insiration from God through the Holy Ghost. </p>
<p>Understanding other religions and their vocabulary helps greatly in being able to share and explain about the church and its history. But it is an individual journey and each person has to choose to take it or not. I have taught my wife and children as best I can. But just as you did they have to study, pray, fast ect. for them selves to get the confirmation of the Spirit. To get that spirital growth and understanding or revelation unto themselves.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/so-much-depends-upon-the-prayer-of-a-young-farm-boy-alone-in-a-grove-of-trees-2/comment-page-1/#comment-33315</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 14:14:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=887#comment-33315</guid>
		<description>Thanks for sharing this, Liz.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for sharing this, Liz.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Elizabeth</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/so-much-depends-upon-the-prayer-of-a-young-farm-boy-alone-in-a-grove-of-trees-2/comment-page-1/#comment-33306</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 13:13:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=887#comment-33306</guid>
		<description>smb, I know what you mean about the unbelievability of the Mormon story. It is truly incredible and invites belief and disbelief in the ways that any good religion does. It thrusts the believer into a series of interstices between historical reality and myth, human experience and divinity, and doubt and certainty. It is a rich and terrifying place to be at times.

ama, thank you for sharing your experiences. I will certainly check out the link.

Rameumptom, thank you. You speak my language.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>smb, I know what you mean about the unbelievability of the Mormon story. It is truly incredible and invites belief and disbelief in the ways that any good religion does. It thrusts the believer into a series of interstices between historical reality and myth, human experience and divinity, and doubt and certainty. It is a rich and terrifying place to be at times.</p>
<p>ama, thank you for sharing your experiences. I will certainly check out the link.</p>
<p>Rameumptom, thank you. You speak my language.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rameumptom</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/so-much-depends-upon-the-prayer-of-a-young-farm-boy-alone-in-a-grove-of-trees-2/comment-page-1/#comment-33255</link>
		<dc:creator>Rameumptom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 00:44:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=887#comment-33255</guid>
		<description>I spent years after joining the Church in 1975 wondering, if the Book of Mormon contains the fulness of the gospel, why it didn&#039;t contain the endowment.  Only after years of study, did I realize that it does contain it.

Elizabeth, your blog shows an endowment, also.  It is a personal journey that we share with one another (and with Adam and Eve), taking us from our childish innocence, to the depth, richness and horrors the telestial world has to offer.  With faith in the journey, we can be led back to the presence of God.  Regardless of who writes the story, each of us must have our own theophany, and this is the path, which leads us to it.

Sadly, many members do not understand that the search does not end at baptism, nor at our own personal First Vision.  Those are just the opening salvos in a war we have within ourselves, as we wander seeking the heavenly city that Abraham also sought and failed to find in this life.  

Just as with the Vision of the Tree of Life, some wander off from the iron rod, losing themselves in the mists. Others eat of the fruit, but then are ashamed or question the nutritional value of the fruit, and walk away, seeking the answers in the great and spacious building.

When I began studying Hugh Nibley&#039;s writings in the late 1970s, early 1980s, my Dad warned me about seeking too deeply.  I see where such dangers could have led me down many paths. But I also see that in searching and seeking truth, wherever it was to be found, it enriched my testimony and made it firmer than had I hid my head in the sand.  I do agree we need to have a continued dialogue with other Christians.  We struggle with not explaining things well enough, simply because we don&#039;t use their language.  Perhaps discourses, such as Elder Holland&#039;s masterpiece on Jesus&#039; lonely road, will help bridge that gap.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I spent years after joining the Church in 1975 wondering, if the Book of Mormon contains the fulness of the gospel, why it didn&#8217;t contain the endowment.  Only after years of study, did I realize that it does contain it.</p>
<p>Elizabeth, your blog shows an endowment, also.  It is a personal journey that we share with one another (and with Adam and Eve), taking us from our childish innocence, to the depth, richness and horrors the telestial world has to offer.  With faith in the journey, we can be led back to the presence of God.  Regardless of who writes the story, each of us must have our own theophany, and this is the path, which leads us to it.</p>
<p>Sadly, many members do not understand that the search does not end at baptism, nor at our own personal First Vision.  Those are just the opening salvos in a war we have within ourselves, as we wander seeking the heavenly city that Abraham also sought and failed to find in this life.  </p>
<p>Just as with the Vision of the Tree of Life, some wander off from the iron rod, losing themselves in the mists. Others eat of the fruit, but then are ashamed or question the nutritional value of the fruit, and walk away, seeking the answers in the great and spacious building.</p>
<p>When I began studying Hugh Nibley&#8217;s writings in the late 1970s, early 1980s, my Dad warned me about seeking too deeply.  I see where such dangers could have led me down many paths. But I also see that in searching and seeking truth, wherever it was to be found, it enriched my testimony and made it firmer than had I hid my head in the sand.  I do agree we need to have a continued dialogue with other Christians.  We struggle with not explaining things well enough, simply because we don&#8217;t use their language.  Perhaps discourses, such as Elder Holland&#8217;s masterpiece on Jesus&#8217; lonely road, will help bridge that gap.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ama</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/so-much-depends-upon-the-prayer-of-a-young-farm-boy-alone-in-a-grove-of-trees-2/comment-page-1/#comment-33253</link>
		<dc:creator>ama</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 23:51:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=887#comment-33253</guid>
		<description>I really appreciate this post.  I think many times people within the Mormon church feel that it&#039;s an &quot;all or nothing&quot; mentality and if Joseph was a prophet we have to accept everything at face value no questions asked.

I had a similar experience where my faith was stripped down to practically nothing and I had to put it back together piece by piece, line upon line.

I too feel like I am a rough stone rolling and that part of faith is following the promptings of the spirit and studying and learning and relying on God with the realization that I don&#039;t know really anything and I totally depend on Him.

SMB makes the comment that they feel God wants them to be Mormon and I feel the same way about me although I may not understand everything or necissarily believe all Mormon doctrine I can&#039;t deny the Holy Ghost has told me the Book of Mormon is inspired and the spiritual witnesses I&#039;ve had in the temple and other service meetings in the LDS church.

There is a good blog by John Dehlin that helped me get over the &quot;all or nothing mentality&quot; that I once had and help me stay active in the LDS church.  I wrote about this over a year ago in an article called &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://graceforgrace.com/2008/02/04/why-do-people-leave-the-lds-church/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Why to People Leave the LDS Church&lt;/a&gt;?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really appreciate this post.  I think many times people within the Mormon church feel that it&#8217;s an &#8220;all or nothing&#8221; mentality and if Joseph was a prophet we have to accept everything at face value no questions asked.</p>
<p>I had a similar experience where my faith was stripped down to practically nothing and I had to put it back together piece by piece, line upon line.</p>
<p>I too feel like I am a rough stone rolling and that part of faith is following the promptings of the spirit and studying and learning and relying on God with the realization that I don&#8217;t know really anything and I totally depend on Him.</p>
<p>SMB makes the comment that they feel God wants them to be Mormon and I feel the same way about me although I may not understand everything or necissarily believe all Mormon doctrine I can&#8217;t deny the Holy Ghost has told me the Book of Mormon is inspired and the spiritual witnesses I&#8217;ve had in the temple and other service meetings in the LDS church.</p>
<p>There is a good blog by John Dehlin that helped me get over the &#8220;all or nothing mentality&#8221; that I once had and help me stay active in the LDS church.  I wrote about this over a year ago in an article called &#8220;<a href="http://graceforgrace.com/2008/02/04/why-do-people-leave-the-lds-church/" rel="nofollow">Why to People Leave the LDS Church</a>?&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: smb</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/so-much-depends-upon-the-prayer-of-a-young-farm-boy-alone-in-a-grove-of-trees-2/comment-page-1/#comment-33247</link>
		<dc:creator>smb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 22:48:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=887#comment-33247</guid>
		<description>I still remember the flash of unreality when, having been converted by a potent experience of regeneration just a year prior, I realized that I could never believe the Mormon story (for me it was freshman year of college).  I had even read up on other religions at length previously, so it wasn&#039;t that I hadn&#039;t thought about religion or theology, it was that suddenly Mormonism just seemed so incredible that I could not seriously believe in it.  It took a couple years of leaving space for God (that first clause is a vast oversimplification of a highly complex situation and process), and eventually I felt that God wanted me to be a Mormon, and I&#039;ve been a believing one ever since.  I am very sympathetic to people whose paths are circuitous and painful.  There is language in William James about that agonizing flash of loss, so much worse than any simple bereavement, that accompanies an awareness of atheism.

God bless on your paths.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I still remember the flash of unreality when, having been converted by a potent experience of regeneration just a year prior, I realized that I could never believe the Mormon story (for me it was freshman year of college).  I had even read up on other religions at length previously, so it wasn&#8217;t that I hadn&#8217;t thought about religion or theology, it was that suddenly Mormonism just seemed so incredible that I could not seriously believe in it.  It took a couple years of leaving space for God (that first clause is a vast oversimplification of a highly complex situation and process), and eventually I felt that God wanted me to be a Mormon, and I&#8217;ve been a believing one ever since.  I am very sympathetic to people whose paths are circuitous and painful.  There is language in William James about that agonizing flash of loss, so much worse than any simple bereavement, that accompanies an awareness of atheism.</p>
<p>God bless on your paths.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

