Comments on: Science as a Vocation: Max Weber, Science, and the Believer

By: Juvenile Instructor » The JI Welcomes Steve Fleming

Juvenile Instructor » The JI Welcomes Steve Fleming — Mon, 25 May 2009 20:57:07 +0000

[...] http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/science-as-a-vocation/ [...]

By: Bob

Bob — Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:02:55 +0000

#1: “So I read Weber as rejecting science as a source of value.”
I don’t know. I remember watching “Cosmos” with Carl Sagen. There seemed a feeling of ‘value’ (as in goodness) to his Science.

By: kristine N

kristine N — Mon, 28 Jul 2008 04:33:34 +0000

Anthony–In defense of planetary scientists and astronomers, it’s really, really hard to gather information about the other planets in our solar system, not to mention extrasolar planets. As much as we’ve learned about Venus and Mars, we just don’t know that much. So, yes, every time more information is gathered about, say, Mars, the models that are previously believed have to be revised, sometimes drastically. We used to assume the other rocky planets would be a lot like Earth. Turns out, not so much. In fact, the more we learn about them, the more differences we see. That’s not really a failing of the science as much as a failing of measurement. Scientists are limited by what is measurable, which simply isn’t much in some fields.

As for the terminology you quote (scientists are “surprised,” or are sent “back to the drawing board”) that’s terminology used primarily in popular science articles. Not only that, but the thrill of discovery, and especially of overturning old, incorrect models, is much of what draws many of us into science. It’s actually kinda fun to figure out where the gaps and errors in a model of the world are, and we scientists work hard at finding them. Again, I don’t see that as a failing of science–we are well aware that every model proposed has problems, and we spend our careers tracking down those problems and fixing them, bit by bit.

Science may not tell you much about the meaning of life, but I wonder why you’d really expect it to. Human experiences (including explorations of the meaning of life) are subjective, and the scientific method attempts to reject the subjective in favor or objective evidence and reason. Science is great as a vocation. As a philosophy of life it leaves plenty to be desired, but again, I don’t think that’s really the point.

By: J. Stapley

J. Stapley — Sun, 27 Jul 2008 22:26:10 +0000

Thanks for those citations. I don’t think that I have ever read a Religious Educator article, but yours sound very interesting. I’ll be sure to check them out.

By: Steve Fleming

Steve Fleming — Sun, 27 Jul 2008 21:53:44 +0000

My latest article in the Religious Educator is called “John Wesley: A Methodist Foundation for the Restoration” 9, no.3 (2008): 131-150. I had a previous one called “The Radical Reformation and the Restoration of the Gospel,” 7, no. 2(2006): 65-77. It’s online, the other one should be online soon.

Again, we’re hoping to get the papers for the seminar published by the Religous Educator.

By: J. Stapley

J. Stapley — Sun, 27 Jul 2008 21:26:55 +0000

CES changed their name to “Seminaries and Institutes of Religion” or something like that.

By: Steve Fleming

Steve Fleming — Sun, 27 Jul 2008 20:28:45 +0000

J. What is “SIR”?

By: J. Stapley

J. Stapley — Sun, 27 Jul 2008 19:58:57 +0000

Steve, I’m interested in your Religious Educator article. I find the work you are doing with the newly christened SIR (or whatever they call it now) intriguing and wondered what the full cite was.

By: Steve Fleming

Steve Fleming — Sun, 27 Jul 2008 19:04:10 +0000

The paper is coming out in Max Weber Studies.

By: Steve Fleming

Steve Fleming — Sun, 27 Jul 2008 19:03:15 +0000

My point was not to make an attack on empiricism but to note that Weber saw the paradox. One of Weber’s major themes was “rationalization” and the role that certain movements in Judeo-Christian history had played in the process. Weber was all for rationalization but found that it ultimately locked us in an “iron cage” or labor without meaning. Weber looked to Tolstoy (as mentioned about) and later the Quakers as a way out the iron cage.

Says Weber, “The fate of our times is characterized by rationalization and intellectualization and, above all, by the ‘disenchantment of the world’…. To the person who cannot bear the fate of the times … the arms of the old churches are open widely and compassionately for him…. One way or another he has to bring his ‘intellectual sacrifice’–that is inevitable. If he can do it, we shall not rebuke him” (155).

My Weber paper is on the debate over how well the Quakers support the Protestant Ethic. I use data on Quakers that joined the early Mormons to weigh in on the debate and take Weber’s side. The Quaker Mormons (as I call them) and their children were quite a group; Heber J. Grant was one of them.