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	<title>Comments on: Pioneer Day and Remembering/Forgetting Utah&#8217;s Indian Wars</title>
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	<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/pioneer-day-and-rememberingforgetting-utahs-indian-wars/</link>
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		<title>By: Corn Duck</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/pioneer-day-and-rememberingforgetting-utahs-indian-wars/comment-page-1/#comment-77101</link>
		<dc:creator>Corn Duck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Aug 2010 23:15:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=4622#comment-77101</guid>
		<description>Its hard to believe its taken this long for us, as a people, to recognize our own error in  celebrating our new Utah home while destroying a culture, and people, dependent on local fishing, foraging, and farming techniques.

I hope we can begin to tell the real story by  educating our children and mending broken relationships associated with the western Utah migration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its hard to believe its taken this long for us, as a people, to recognize our own error in  celebrating our new Utah home while destroying a culture, and people, dependent on local fishing, foraging, and farming techniques.</p>
<p>I hope we can begin to tell the real story by  educating our children and mending broken relationships associated with the western Utah migration.</p>
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		<title>By: David G.</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/pioneer-day-and-rememberingforgetting-utahs-indian-wars/comment-page-1/#comment-75971</link>
		<dc:creator>David G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jul 2010 02:22:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=4622#comment-75971</guid>
		<description>MormonDeadhead, Jared, and Chris: That&#039;s crazy that the reenactments are &lt;em&gt;still&lt;/em&gt; going on. I heard today that there is a small town not far from me in Texas that also continues to stage a mock Indian battle. I wonder how many other places still do this? I know there are annual reenactments of Custer&#039;s Last Stand at the Little Bighorn, but I had assumed it continued because the Lakotas actually won that one, which, according to scholar Michael Elliott, provides a way for whites to participate in celebrations of the &quot;Winning of the West&quot; while avoiding the guilt that has increasingly become associated with the subject. But to stage a battle where whites win, that&#039;s something that surprises me.

Chris, thanks for providing the link to Elder Eyring&#039;s statement. You&#039;re right that it&#039;s certainly relevant here. 

Ben, I wasn&#039;t aware of that Battalion monument. Do you think you could send me the picture via email? The vandalism is interesting. Some of the markers on the trail leading to the outlook to Mountain Meadows similarly have been defaced, with someone scratching off &quot;Indians&quot; from the inscription that identified Mormons and Indians as the perpetrators. Although it&#039;s impossible to know who did it or their motivations, I think we can safely assume that the vandal disagreed with the monument&#039;s message and defacement was the most permanent way to protest it and provide a counternarrative of sorts. The Custer National Monument sports several bullet holes that similarly contest the stated intent of the obelisk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MormonDeadhead, Jared, and Chris: That&#8217;s crazy that the reenactments are <em>still</em> going on. I heard today that there is a small town not far from me in Texas that also continues to stage a mock Indian battle. I wonder how many other places still do this? I know there are annual reenactments of Custer&#8217;s Last Stand at the Little Bighorn, but I had assumed it continued because the Lakotas actually won that one, which, according to scholar Michael Elliott, provides a way for whites to participate in celebrations of the &#8220;Winning of the West&#8221; while avoiding the guilt that has increasingly become associated with the subject. But to stage a battle where whites win, that&#8217;s something that surprises me.</p>
<p>Chris, thanks for providing the link to Elder Eyring&#8217;s statement. You&#8217;re right that it&#8217;s certainly relevant here. </p>
<p>Ben, I wasn&#8217;t aware of that Battalion monument. Do you think you could send me the picture via email? The vandalism is interesting. Some of the markers on the trail leading to the outlook to Mountain Meadows similarly have been defaced, with someone scratching off &#8220;Indians&#8221; from the inscription that identified Mormons and Indians as the perpetrators. Although it&#8217;s impossible to know who did it or their motivations, I think we can safely assume that the vandal disagreed with the monument&#8217;s message and defacement was the most permanent way to protest it and provide a counternarrative of sorts. The Custer National Monument sports several bullet holes that similarly contest the stated intent of the obelisk.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/pioneer-day-and-rememberingforgetting-utahs-indian-wars/comment-page-1/#comment-75931</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jul 2010 20:07:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=4622#comment-75931</guid>
		<description>Thanks for this, David.

This doesn&#039;t directly relate, but your post reminded me of a monument Catherine and I saw last year. When traveling through northern new mexico, we found out that there was a monument dedicated to the Mormon Battalion. It took a while to track it down, but when we finally did we found a large obelisk made out of rock with an accompanying plaque. On the plaque it talked about how bravely the battalion marched through, fending off the vicious &quot;savages&quot; along there way (mind you, this monument was probably only a few miles from one of the local reservations). I think it was erected in the mid 20th century.

If I was more computer literate, I&#039;d add the photo I took of the memorial: since that time, someone has gone and (understandably) scratched out the &quot;savages&quot;  on the plaque.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this, David.</p>
<p>This doesn&#8217;t directly relate, but your post reminded me of a monument Catherine and I saw last year. When traveling through northern new mexico, we found out that there was a monument dedicated to the Mormon Battalion. It took a while to track it down, but when we finally did we found a large obelisk made out of rock with an accompanying plaque. On the plaque it talked about how bravely the battalion marched through, fending off the vicious &#8220;savages&#8221; along there way (mind you, this monument was probably only a few miles from one of the local reservations). I think it was erected in the mid 20th century.</p>
<p>If I was more computer literate, I&#8217;d add the photo I took of the memorial: since that time, someone has gone and (understandably) scratched out the &#8220;savages&#8221;  on the plaque.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/pioneer-day-and-rememberingforgetting-utahs-indian-wars/comment-page-1/#comment-75921</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jul 2010 18:31:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=4622#comment-75921</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the post, David. The timing of this post with Elder Jensen&#039;s comments worked out perfectly. Elder Eyring&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695209359,00.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;words&lt;/a&gt; at Mountain Meadows a couple of years ago, in which he offered &quot;a separate expression of regret&quot; to the Pauites &quot;who have unjustly borne for too long the principal blame for what occurred during the massacre&quot; seem appropriate to note here, too.

&lt;em&gt;For too long, Pioneer Day celebrations in Utah featured reenactments of Indian raids, kidnappings, and battles, and the Sowiette monument does provide a nice reprieve from other, more explicitly violent, commemorations.&lt;/em&gt;

I spent this last week participating in a handcart pioneer trek with the youth in our Stake here in Virginia. While (thankfully, IMO) there were no staged attacks by &quot;Indians&quot; along the way (which I&#039;ve heard of other congregations in the West doing in the very recent past), in a testimony meeting on the last night, more than one youth described the hardships endured by the Mormon pioneers as including &quot;attacks from wild Indians.&quot; 

Elder Eyring&#039;s comments, together with Elder Jensen&#039;s, and those combined with my own anecdotes from this weekend, provide at least some evidence that Mormon-Indian violence still maintains a prominent place in Latter-day Saints&#039; conscience at both an institutional and grassroots level (with the institutional church taking the more progressive and culturally-sensitive stance on the issue). It would be wonderful to see those institutional efforts trickle down to the rank-and-file membership.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the post, David. The timing of this post with Elder Jensen&#8217;s comments worked out perfectly. Elder Eyring&#8217;s <a href="http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695209359,00.html" rel="nofollow">words</a> at Mountain Meadows a couple of years ago, in which he offered &#8220;a separate expression of regret&#8221; to the Pauites &#8220;who have unjustly borne for too long the principal blame for what occurred during the massacre&#8221; seem appropriate to note here, too.</p>
<p><em>For too long, Pioneer Day celebrations in Utah featured reenactments of Indian raids, kidnappings, and battles, and the Sowiette monument does provide a nice reprieve from other, more explicitly violent, commemorations.</em></p>
<p>I spent this last week participating in a handcart pioneer trek with the youth in our Stake here in Virginia. While (thankfully, IMO) there were no staged attacks by &#8220;Indians&#8221; along the way (which I&#8217;ve heard of other congregations in the West doing in the very recent past), in a testimony meeting on the last night, more than one youth described the hardships endured by the Mormon pioneers as including &#8220;attacks from wild Indians.&#8221; </p>
<p>Elder Eyring&#8217;s comments, together with Elder Jensen&#8217;s, and those combined with my own anecdotes from this weekend, provide at least some evidence that Mormon-Indian violence still maintains a prominent place in Latter-day Saints&#8217; conscience at both an institutional and grassroots level (with the institutional church taking the more progressive and culturally-sensitive stance on the issue). It would be wonderful to see those institutional efforts trickle down to the rank-and-file membership.</p>
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		<title>By: Juvenile Instructor &#187; Elder Jensen Spends Pioneer Day Address Talking About&#8212;Indians?!</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/pioneer-day-and-rememberingforgetting-utahs-indian-wars/comment-page-1/#comment-75883</link>
		<dc:creator>Juvenile Instructor &#187; Elder Jensen Spends Pioneer Day Address Talking About&#8212;Indians?!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jul 2010 09:34:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=4622#comment-75883</guid>
		<description>[...] T: Pioneer Day and Remembering/ForgettingMormonDeadhead: Pioneer Day and Remembering/ForgettingDavid G.: Pioneer Day and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] T: Pioneer Day and Remembering/ForgettingMormonDeadhead: Pioneer Day and Remembering/ForgettingDavid G.: Pioneer Day and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jared T</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/pioneer-day-and-rememberingforgetting-utahs-indian-wars/comment-page-1/#comment-75867</link>
		<dc:creator>Jared T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jul 2010 04:54:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=4622#comment-75867</guid>
		<description>Excellent post, David. And such an awesome coincidence (?) that Elder Jensen on Pioneer Day chose to help us remember that some groups lost out when the Pioneers moved in. 

Here is an interesting little article about some &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mormonstoday.com/010907/D6WellsvilleUT01.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;controversy around the Sham Battle&lt;/a&gt; in small town Utah back in 2001 involving a Stake President named Lucero and his refusal to advertise the Sham Battle in ward programs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post, David. And such an awesome coincidence (?) that Elder Jensen on Pioneer Day chose to help us remember that some groups lost out when the Pioneers moved in. </p>
<p>Here is an interesting little article about some <a href="http://www.mormonstoday.com/010907/D6WellsvilleUT01.shtml" rel="nofollow">controversy around the Sham Battle</a> in small town Utah back in 2001 involving a Stake President named Lucero and his refusal to advertise the Sham Battle in ward programs.</p>
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		<title>By: MormonDeadhead</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/pioneer-day-and-rememberingforgetting-utahs-indian-wars/comment-page-1/#comment-75864</link>
		<dc:creator>MormonDeadhead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jul 2010 04:19:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=4622#comment-75864</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;So we’re talking late 1980s?&lt;/em&gt;

Actually, the &quot;Sham Battle&quot; as they call it apparently still goes on today. The 2009 city newsletter has a contact number for those interested in participating.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>So we’re talking late 1980s?</em></p>
<p>Actually, the &#8220;Sham Battle&#8221; as they call it apparently still goes on today. The 2009 city newsletter has a contact number for those interested in participating.</p>
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		<title>By: David G.</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/pioneer-day-and-rememberingforgetting-utahs-indian-wars/comment-page-1/#comment-75860</link>
		<dc:creator>David G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jul 2010 02:35:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=4622#comment-75860</guid>
		<description>Wow, ten years old? So we&#039;re talking late 1980s? I thought the reenactments had died out in the 1970s. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, ten years old? So we&#8217;re talking late 1980s? I thought the reenactments had died out in the 1970s.</p>
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		<title>By: MormonDeadhead</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/pioneer-day-and-rememberingforgetting-utahs-indian-wars/comment-page-1/#comment-75856</link>
		<dc:creator>MormonDeadhead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jul 2010 01:19:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=4622#comment-75856</guid>
		<description>I remember some of the re-enactments I witnessed as a child in the small UT town that I grew up in that included &quot;wild Indians&quot; burning a settler&#039;s house to the ground followed by a white militia gunning down the &quot;savages&quot;. Didn&#039;t think much of them at the time (just thought all the fire was way cool; what can I say? I was a 10 yr old boy). Posts such as this really put the problematic aspects of such stereotypes in perspective.

Thanks for the post!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember some of the re-enactments I witnessed as a child in the small UT town that I grew up in that included &#8220;wild Indians&#8221; burning a settler&#8217;s house to the ground followed by a white militia gunning down the &#8220;savages&#8221;. Didn&#8217;t think much of them at the time (just thought all the fire was way cool; what can I say? I was a 10 yr old boy). Posts such as this really put the problematic aspects of such stereotypes in perspective.</p>
<p>Thanks for the post!!!</p>
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		<title>By: David G.</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/pioneer-day-and-rememberingforgetting-utahs-indian-wars/comment-page-1/#comment-75841</link>
		<dc:creator>David G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jul 2010 20:11:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=4622#comment-75841</guid>
		<description>It has come to my attention that Marlin K. Jensen &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700050527/Substantial-Indian-civilization-existed-when-Mormon-pioneers-arrived-in-Utah-Elder-Marlin-K-Jensen-says.html?pg=1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;spoke on Mormon-Indian relations&lt;/a&gt; today at the celebration. Worth a read. Especially this part:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;Regardless of how one views the equities of Indian-Mormon relations in those times, the end result was that the land and cultural birthright Indians once possessed in the Great Basin were taken from them,&quot; he said. &quot;What we can do, the least we can do from a distance of 160 years, is to acknowledge and appreciate the monumental loss this represents on the part of Utah&#039;s Indians. That loss and its 160-year aftermath are the rest of the story.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It has come to my attention that Marlin K. Jensen <a href="http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700050527/Substantial-Indian-civilization-existed-when-Mormon-pioneers-arrived-in-Utah-Elder-Marlin-K-Jensen-says.html?pg=1" rel="nofollow">spoke on Mormon-Indian relations</a> today at the celebration. Worth a read. Especially this part:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;Regardless of how one views the equities of Indian-Mormon relations in those times, the end result was that the land and cultural birthright Indians once possessed in the Great Basin were taken from them,&#8221; he said. &#8220;What we can do, the least we can do from a distance of 160 years, is to acknowledge and appreciate the monumental loss this represents on the part of Utah&#8217;s Indians. That loss and its 160-year aftermath are the rest of the story.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
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