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	<title>Comments on: O&#8217;Dea, Sources of Strain, and Rank-and-File Mormons</title>
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		<title>By: AHLDuke</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/odea-sources-of-strain-and-rank-and-file-mormons/comment-page-1/#comment-3172</link>
		<dc:creator>AHLDuke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 00:27:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>My experience has been much the same as everyone else&#039;s.  Many members are not only threatened by considering non-Mormon perspectives on historical and theological matters but, it seems, by thinking about it at all!  And some seem to think you are starting down the road to trouble for thinking about it too much.  I think that it reflects a sad lack of confidence that reasoned analysis could end up confirming one&#039;s testimony.  I understand that historical precedent has gone the other way in the past, but these should be examples that we improve on, not abandon altogether.

Also, on the subject of &quot;sources of strain&quot;, I was really hoping that Terryl Givens&#039; last book &lt;em&gt;People of Paradox&lt;/em&gt; would be a contribution, or an update, on O&#039;Dea&#039;s writings on the matter.  In my opinion, it showed a disappointing lack of depth in that regard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My experience has been much the same as everyone else&#8217;s.  Many members are not only threatened by considering non-Mormon perspectives on historical and theological matters but, it seems, by thinking about it at all!  And some seem to think you are starting down the road to trouble for thinking about it too much.  I think that it reflects a sad lack of confidence that reasoned analysis could end up confirming one&#8217;s testimony.  I understand that historical precedent has gone the other way in the past, but these should be examples that we improve on, not abandon altogether.</p>
<p>Also, on the subject of &#8220;sources of strain&#8221;, I was really hoping that Terryl Givens&#8217; last book <em>People of Paradox</em> would be a contribution, or an update, on O&#8217;Dea&#8217;s writings on the matter.  In my opinion, it showed a disappointing lack of depth in that regard.</p>
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		<title>By: Nate Oman</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/odea-sources-of-strain-and-rank-and-file-mormons/comment-page-1/#comment-3137</link>
		<dc:creator>Nate Oman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 12:53:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;I think the trick is to not take yourself too seriously in all this. Who knows what God thinks of the faith walks of others, including the “provincial obscurantists”? I certainly don’t. And no one was ever damned for ignoring my scholarship.&quot;

Amen and Amen!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I think the trick is to not take yourself too seriously in all this. Who knows what God thinks of the faith walks of others, including the “provincial obscurantists”? I certainly don’t. And no one was ever damned for ignoring my scholarship.&#8221;</p>
<p>Amen and Amen!</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/odea-sources-of-strain-and-rank-and-file-mormons/comment-page-1/#comment-3127</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 23:48:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Interesting post, Chris.

I think that some of this tension is loosening while many more people are becoming more interested in &quot;scholarly&quot; history. From my experience, the lay member of the Church is much more likely to appreciate certain views if they personally know someone who holds them. When they realize that someone they know, trust, and admire is willing to look at history in a &quot;scholarly&quot; way, they suddenly think, &quot;hey, since person X thinks its ok, then there must be some merit to it.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting post, Chris.</p>
<p>I think that some of this tension is loosening while many more people are becoming more interested in &#8220;scholarly&#8221; history. From my experience, the lay member of the Church is much more likely to appreciate certain views if they personally know someone who holds them. When they realize that someone they know, trust, and admire is willing to look at history in a &#8220;scholarly&#8221; way, they suddenly think, &#8220;hey, since person X thinks its ok, then there must be some merit to it.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: smb</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/odea-sources-of-strain-and-rank-and-file-mormons/comment-page-1/#comment-3125</link>
		<dc:creator>smb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 22:53:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>There&#039;s always been a spectrum, in my experience.  10-15 years ago I had people telling me that I had &quot;saved&quot; their testimony, while other people were announcing that I was the worst heretic on the East Coast.  Today, same thing, some people tell me I&#039;ve given them a spiritual connection to Mormonism that they treasure, others say I&#039;m threatening to faith.  I think the trick is to not take yourself too seriously in all this.  Who knows what God thinks of the faith walks of others, including the &quot;provincial obscurantists&quot;? I certainly don&#039;t.  And no one was ever damned for ignoring my scholarship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s always been a spectrum, in my experience.  10-15 years ago I had people telling me that I had &#8220;saved&#8221; their testimony, while other people were announcing that I was the worst heretic on the East Coast.  Today, same thing, some people tell me I&#8217;ve given them a spiritual connection to Mormonism that they treasure, others say I&#8217;m threatening to faith.  I think the trick is to not take yourself too seriously in all this.  Who knows what God thinks of the faith walks of others, including the &#8220;provincial obscurantists&#8221;? I certainly don&#8217;t.  And no one was ever damned for ignoring my scholarship.</p>
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		<title>By: BHodges</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/odea-sources-of-strain-and-rank-and-file-mormons/comment-page-1/#comment-3113</link>
		<dc:creator>BHodges</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 19:31:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/odea-sources-of-strain-and-rank-and-file-mormons/#comment-3113</guid>
		<description>Great post. 

My general concern has been with the rank-and-file members of the Church with whom I rub elbows who don&#039;t seem to spend much time thinking about the gospel in depth, as far as I can tell. Some even seem a little suspicious that I like to research Church history and religious doctrine in general. Then I come online and feel like the smallest fish in the biggest pond. If only I knew some people who were really interested in my day-to-day non-internet life!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post. </p>
<p>My general concern has been with the rank-and-file members of the Church with whom I rub elbows who don&#8217;t seem to spend much time thinking about the gospel in depth, as far as I can tell. Some even seem a little suspicious that I like to research Church history and religious doctrine in general. Then I come online and feel like the smallest fish in the biggest pond. If only I knew some people who were really interested in my day-to-day non-internet life!</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/odea-sources-of-strain-and-rank-and-file-mormons/comment-page-1/#comment-3105</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 18:08:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Nate, Regarding your comment that &quot;I have had extremely positive interactions with my local leadership about my interests in Mormon history. I regularlly talk with my bishop and his wife about LDS history.&quot; 

I&#039;m glad and encouraged by reports like this, and I&#039;ve heard many of them in the recent past.

kevinf,

Thanks for your comments. I think you&#039;re probably correct in your assessment, and I think (hope?) the church and its scholars are better prepared to handle the &quot;honest evaluation of the church’s history&quot; than they were in Arrington&#039;s day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nate, Regarding your comment that &#8220;I have had extremely positive interactions with my local leadership about my interests in Mormon history. I regularlly talk with my bishop and his wife about LDS history.&#8221; </p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad and encouraged by reports like this, and I&#8217;ve heard many of them in the recent past.</p>
<p>kevinf,</p>
<p>Thanks for your comments. I think you&#8217;re probably correct in your assessment, and I think (hope?) the church and its scholars are better prepared to handle the &#8220;honest evaluation of the church’s history&#8221; than they were in Arrington&#8217;s day.</p>
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		<title>By: kevinf</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/odea-sources-of-strain-and-rank-and-file-mormons/comment-page-1/#comment-3102</link>
		<dc:creator>kevinf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 18:00:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/odea-sources-of-strain-and-rank-and-file-mormons/#comment-3102</guid>
		<description>Pardon my spelling, that&#039;s Arrington.  Typing dyslexia again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pardon my spelling, that&#8217;s Arrington.  Typing dyslexia again.</p>
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		<title>By: kevinf</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/odea-sources-of-strain-and-rank-and-file-mormons/comment-page-1/#comment-3100</link>
		<dc:creator>kevinf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 17:31:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/odea-sources-of-strain-and-rank-and-file-mormons/#comment-3100</guid>
		<description>Chris, good post.   I&#039;m reminded of the discussion going on pre-&#039;nacle about &quot;faithful&quot; vs &quot;objective&quot; history, with Louis Midgley at BYU heavily involved.

I think we&#039;ve come a fair distance since then, and I certainly see a refreshing new approach to church history that is on a par with the &quot;Camelot&quot; of Leonard Arrinton&#039;s days.  These things do tend to run in cycles, but the pendulum swings seem to be moving further towards an honest evaluation of the church&#039;s history.  I found RSR fascinating, challenging on some levels, but ultimately strengthening my testimony of Joseph Smith.  Others that I have talked with, though, have been critical or dismissive of Bushman&#039;s work.  

Wasn&#039;t it Joseph Smith himself who said, &quot;By proving contraries, truth is made manifest&quot;?  The tension O&#039;Dea wrote about I think will always be present, but is vital for the church to continue to grow and mature.  Our history is so tied up with our doctrine that we can&#039;t ignore it, and how we handle it now will help to set a tone for the decades to come.

I love paradoxes, usually.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, good post.   I&#8217;m reminded of the discussion going on pre-&#8217;nacle about &#8220;faithful&#8221; vs &#8220;objective&#8221; history, with Louis Midgley at BYU heavily involved.</p>
<p>I think we&#8217;ve come a fair distance since then, and I certainly see a refreshing new approach to church history that is on a par with the &#8220;Camelot&#8221; of Leonard Arrinton&#8217;s days.  These things do tend to run in cycles, but the pendulum swings seem to be moving further towards an honest evaluation of the church&#8217;s history.  I found RSR fascinating, challenging on some levels, but ultimately strengthening my testimony of Joseph Smith.  Others that I have talked with, though, have been critical or dismissive of Bushman&#8217;s work.  </p>
<p>Wasn&#8217;t it Joseph Smith himself who said, &#8220;By proving contraries, truth is made manifest&#8221;?  The tension O&#8217;Dea wrote about I think will always be present, but is vital for the church to continue to grow and mature.  Our history is so tied up with our doctrine that we can&#8217;t ignore it, and how we handle it now will help to set a tone for the decades to come.</p>
<p>I love paradoxes, usually.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/odea-sources-of-strain-and-rank-and-file-mormons/comment-page-1/#comment-3098</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 17:15:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>David, you articulated well what I was trying to in my post. I like to think that I, like you, have staked out a position that is a healthy mixture of the faithful and intellectual approaches to the Church, its history, and its culture.

J., interesting observation about &quot;the young folk.&quot; I think you make a valid point. And I like your analogy to a family.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, you articulated well what I was trying to in my post. I like to think that I, like you, have staked out a position that is a healthy mixture of the faithful and intellectual approaches to the Church, its history, and its culture.</p>
<p>J., interesting observation about &#8220;the young folk.&#8221; I think you make a valid point. And I like your analogy to a family.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/odea-sources-of-strain-and-rank-and-file-mormons/comment-page-1/#comment-3097</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 17:10:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/odea-sources-of-strain-and-rank-and-file-mormons/#comment-3097</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the feedback, everyone. 

Nate, I think that you&#039;re right that it&#039;s good to approach the situation as evidence of &quot;a healthy diversity of opinion.&quot;

Eric, I don&#039;t want to turn this thread into a forum for arguing the merits of Helen Whitney&#039;s film. My reaction of disappointment would have been much different if my friend has seen The Mormons and wasn&#039;t pleased with it. That&#039;s fair. What seems sad to me is the idea that some Latter-day Saints can&#039;t approach their faith in an intellectual or critical manner at all, and refuse to even view or read anything resembling an academic narrative of Church history.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the feedback, everyone. </p>
<p>Nate, I think that you&#8217;re right that it&#8217;s good to approach the situation as evidence of &#8220;a healthy diversity of opinion.&#8221;</p>
<p>Eric, I don&#8217;t want to turn this thread into a forum for arguing the merits of Helen Whitney&#8217;s film. My reaction of disappointment would have been much different if my friend has seen The Mormons and wasn&#8217;t pleased with it. That&#8217;s fair. What seems sad to me is the idea that some Latter-day Saints can&#8217;t approach their faith in an intellectual or critical manner at all, and refuse to even view or read anything resembling an academic narrative of Church history.</p>
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