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	<title>Comments on: Jane Lead and the Restoration; Or, In Praise Our Heavenly Mother</title>
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	<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/jane-lead-and-the-restoration-or-in-praise-our-heavenly-mother/</link>
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		<title>By: Pete Wosnik</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/jane-lead-and-the-restoration-or-in-praise-our-heavenly-mother/comment-page-1/#comment-240124</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete Wosnik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2012 00:44:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Very cool stuff, Steve.  These parallels remind me of the similarities between Mormon doctrine and the teachings of the Protestant reformer Thomas Muntzer.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very cool stuff, Steve.  These parallels remind me of the similarities between Mormon doctrine and the teachings of the Protestant reformer Thomas Muntzer.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Fleming</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/jane-lead-and-the-restoration-or-in-praise-our-heavenly-mother/comment-page-1/#comment-239860</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Fleming</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2012 22:41:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=10895#comment-239860</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Jeremy.

That&#039;s particularly flattering, Rachael.  As far as why people link polygamy with Heavenly Mother, I&#039;m not sure, except to say that maybe because Heavenly Mother implies marriage in heaven, and for some reason when people think of marriage in heaven they come up with all sorts of creative ideas.  The belief that Christ married his mother when she ascended to heaven was standard in the Middle Ages.  Mystics use marriage language when talking about God all the time.  As mentioned, Lead talked about a big group marriage in heaven; Lead even talked about marriage when describing her relationship with Heavenly Mother.  Go figure.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Jeremy.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s particularly flattering, Rachael.  As far as why people link polygamy with Heavenly Mother, I&#8217;m not sure, except to say that maybe because Heavenly Mother implies marriage in heaven, and for some reason when people think of marriage in heaven they come up with all sorts of creative ideas.  The belief that Christ married his mother when she ascended to heaven was standard in the Middle Ages.  Mystics use marriage language when talking about God all the time.  As mentioned, Lead talked about a big group marriage in heaven; Lead even talked about marriage when describing her relationship with Heavenly Mother.  Go figure.</p>
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		<title>By: Rachael</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/jane-lead-and-the-restoration-or-in-praise-our-heavenly-mother/comment-page-1/#comment-239809</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2012 18:31:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=10895#comment-239809</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Possibly my favorite post yet. I had no idea Heavenly Mother was a motif-- as a distinctive figure, and not just the mother Christ figure of Julian of Norwich, etc.-- during this time period. 
I am curious why I continue to see an association of polygamy with a Heavenly Mother figure; this happened also in the Meridian Magazine piece a week or two ago (in the comments). Is this simply because a early male Saints incorporated polygamy (what they thought was the &quot;celestial order of marriage&quot; until the early 1900s) into the divine model, or because of some other theologically compelling necessity?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Possibly my favorite post yet. I had no idea Heavenly Mother was a motif&#8211; as a distinctive figure, and not just the mother Christ figure of Julian of Norwich, etc.&#8211; during this time period.<br />
I am curious why I continue to see an association of polygamy with a Heavenly Mother figure; this happened also in the Meridian Magazine piece a week or two ago (in the comments). Is this simply because a early male Saints incorporated polygamy (what they thought was the &#8220;celestial order of marriage&#8221; until the early 1900s) into the divine model, or because of some other theologically compelling necessity?</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Orbe-Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/jane-lead-and-the-restoration-or-in-praise-our-heavenly-mother/comment-page-1/#comment-239731</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Orbe-Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2012 10:33:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=10895#comment-239731</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[REALLY cool stuff. Thanks for digging this up, Steve.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>REALLY cool stuff. Thanks for digging this up, Steve.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Fleming</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/jane-lead-and-the-restoration-or-in-praise-our-heavenly-mother/comment-page-1/#comment-239529</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Fleming</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2012 16:46:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=10895#comment-239529</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Edward and John, thanks.

Andrea, there has been some scholarship on Lead, but relatively litte considering that she was the most prolific female author of her era.  
On spiritual birth, she kind of conflates pre mortal birth and mortal spiritual rebirth.  Here&#039;s a quote:

“Now it was shewn me that this Glorious Virgin was She of whom the Lord Christ was born in the Flesh, who is the Figure of the eternal Virgin, which was from Eternity, by whom is recover’d all of Eves Generation of Lost Births, in which the Virgin-Purity was deflowred; but out of this Virgins Womb brought forth, and made manifest in time, Angellical Births again for a new created Host of Spiritual born Creatures, begotten by the Holy Ghost, wherein the unfathomable Mystery of the Wisdom, and Love of God is made manifest to the lapsed state which came in by Adam and Eve, so that we are to reckon our selves born anew into the unity tending to all Purity of Perfection with Christ our First Born from the Dead, and for to appropriate this Eternal Virgin for our supernatural Mother; It is to be observed those Words which our Lord did let fall when he was upon the Cross, to the beloved John, saying to him, Behold thy Mother (which was the Virgin Mary, who was the Representation of the Eternal Virgin.)  So that from this it may be concluded, that the Lord doth transfer this privilege of Adoption, whereby we may entitle this Virgin for our true Mother;” Enochian Walks with God, 27.

In terms of polygamy, Lead talks about a big heavenly marriage of all the saints.  In the holy of hollies, or highest heaven, everyone is married to each other.  The Philadelphians were accused of free love, which they vigorously denied. 

I did not know that line was often used in RS journals; I&#039;m glad I put it in.  In terms of how Lead viewed the emancipation, she believed that she was ushering in the millenium where all these problems would be fixed.  She felt the culture of her day was rotten and she was crying repentance.  I have a lot more to read, but I&#039;ve read that some scholars are frustrated with Lead for not being political enough, not advocating for reform.  Reform for Lead is purifying the soul, so that we can all be like Enoch and talk with God.  

Susanna, while Mormon notions of Heavenly Mother remain vague, I&#039;m interested in Lead&#039;s vivid descriptions in comparison to JS&#039;s detailed descriptions of angels like Moroni.  Boehme was much more amorphous in his descriptions of Sophia.  Among these visionaries, things became more concrete over time.  

As I mentioned to Andrea, Lead didn&#039;t have much of a political agenda.  Her job was to spread the word and hope the righteous would flock to her.  When that didn&#039;t happen to the degree she hoped, she withdrew and waited (but died soon after.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Edward and John, thanks.</p>
<p>Andrea, there has been some scholarship on Lead, but relatively litte considering that she was the most prolific female author of her era.<br />
On spiritual birth, she kind of conflates pre mortal birth and mortal spiritual rebirth.  Here&#8217;s a quote:</p>
<p>“Now it was shewn me that this Glorious Virgin was She of whom the Lord Christ was born in the Flesh, who is the Figure of the eternal Virgin, which was from Eternity, by whom is recover’d all of Eves Generation of Lost Births, in which the Virgin-Purity was deflowred; but out of this Virgins Womb brought forth, and made manifest in time, Angellical Births again for a new created Host of Spiritual born Creatures, begotten by the Holy Ghost, wherein the unfathomable Mystery of the Wisdom, and Love of God is made manifest to the lapsed state which came in by Adam and Eve, so that we are to reckon our selves born anew into the unity tending to all Purity of Perfection with Christ our First Born from the Dead, and for to appropriate this Eternal Virgin for our supernatural Mother; It is to be observed those Words which our Lord did let fall when he was upon the Cross, to the beloved John, saying to him, Behold thy Mother (which was the Virgin Mary, who was the Representation of the Eternal Virgin.)  So that from this it may be concluded, that the Lord doth transfer this privilege of Adoption, whereby we may entitle this Virgin for our true Mother;” Enochian Walks with God, 27.</p>
<p>In terms of polygamy, Lead talks about a big heavenly marriage of all the saints.  In the holy of hollies, or highest heaven, everyone is married to each other.  The Philadelphians were accused of free love, which they vigorously denied. </p>
<p>I did not know that line was often used in RS journals; I&#8217;m glad I put it in.  In terms of how Lead viewed the emancipation, she believed that she was ushering in the millenium where all these problems would be fixed.  She felt the culture of her day was rotten and she was crying repentance.  I have a lot more to read, but I&#8217;ve read that some scholars are frustrated with Lead for not being political enough, not advocating for reform.  Reform for Lead is purifying the soul, so that we can all be like Enoch and talk with God.  </p>
<p>Susanna, while Mormon notions of Heavenly Mother remain vague, I&#8217;m interested in Lead&#8217;s vivid descriptions in comparison to JS&#8217;s detailed descriptions of angels like Moroni.  Boehme was much more amorphous in his descriptions of Sophia.  Among these visionaries, things became more concrete over time.  </p>
<p>As I mentioned to Andrea, Lead didn&#8217;t have much of a political agenda.  Her job was to spread the word and hope the righteous would flock to her.  When that didn&#8217;t happen to the degree she hoped, she withdrew and waited (but died soon after.)</p>
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		<title>By: Susanna M.</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/jane-lead-and-the-restoration-or-in-praise-our-heavenly-mother/comment-page-1/#comment-239520</link>
		<dc:creator>Susanna M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2012 16:10:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=10895#comment-239520</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Really interesting stuff, thanks for writing about it. I&#039;ll piggyback on Andrea&#039;s comments. It strikes me that this vision of a divine female is much more detailed than the vision of the Mother in Heaven that Eliza Snow and her contemporaries had. For them, it seemed that Snow&#039;s revelation that there WAS a Heavenly Mother was the main focus. The details of who she was and how she interacted with mortals remained vague and usually explored in literary rather than overt revelatory visions. This is interesting in light of Andrea&#039;s questions and observations that these early women had rather concrete and detailed understandings of how women would increase in status and spiritual power. Don&#039;t know what to make of it yet, but interesting! In many ways these visions seem more similar to contemporary descriptions/visions of the Heavenly Mother which tend to be much more physically detailed and interested in how this figure interacts directly with humans. Again, thanks! Good stuff!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really interesting stuff, thanks for writing about it. I&#8217;ll piggyback on Andrea&#8217;s comments. It strikes me that this vision of a divine female is much more detailed than the vision of the Mother in Heaven that Eliza Snow and her contemporaries had. For them, it seemed that Snow&#8217;s revelation that there WAS a Heavenly Mother was the main focus. The details of who she was and how she interacted with mortals remained vague and usually explored in literary rather than overt revelatory visions. This is interesting in light of Andrea&#8217;s questions and observations that these early women had rather concrete and detailed understandings of how women would increase in status and spiritual power. Don&#8217;t know what to make of it yet, but interesting! In many ways these visions seem more similar to contemporary descriptions/visions of the Heavenly Mother which tend to be much more physically detailed and interested in how this figure interacts directly with humans. Again, thanks! Good stuff!</p>
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		<title>By: Andrea R-M</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/jane-lead-and-the-restoration-or-in-praise-our-heavenly-mother/comment-page-1/#comment-239438</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrea R-M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2012 06:53:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=10895#comment-239438</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Steve-- this is fantastic, and there&#039;s much richness here that women&#039;s historians will want to claim or at least tinker with.  There are two points that I find especially interesting.  The first is that here we have a Heavenly Mother who gives birth to spirit children. Many feminists might find this troubling in light of recent interpretations of the &quot;clothing or organizing intelligences&quot; as the process of spiritual creation, as opposed to the literal embodiment of spirits that runs throughout Mormon folklore about Heavenly Mother.  With that in mind, did Lead ever reference any forms of spiritual plurality of wives or how spiritual procreation would take place?  

Second observation is the notion of “this Restoration and Advancement of the Female Sex to the same Freedom and Dignity with the Male shall prove in the Event, the Glory of this Age.”  You see this idea repeated over and over in early Mormon women&#039;s discourse, the Exponent, and RS narratives by Eliza, Emmeline, and others, with their specific tack being that it was the organization of the RS that paved the way for that ultimate emancipation of women. But most compelling was how they could so easily juxtapose that emancipation with the practice of polygamy, and in a patriarchal culture. So, did Lead see that emancipation taking a specific form?  Was it spiritual, political, sexual/familial, or did it involve throwing off forms of earthly or eternal patriarchy?  Richards doesn&#039;t seem to be as interested in the gendered significance of her prophecies, but it begs some comparisons.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve&#8211; this is fantastic, and there&#8217;s much richness here that women&#8217;s historians will want to claim or at least tinker with.  There are two points that I find especially interesting.  The first is that here we have a Heavenly Mother who gives birth to spirit children. Many feminists might find this troubling in light of recent interpretations of the &#8220;clothing or organizing intelligences&#8221; as the process of spiritual creation, as opposed to the literal embodiment of spirits that runs throughout Mormon folklore about Heavenly Mother.  With that in mind, did Lead ever reference any forms of spiritual plurality of wives or how spiritual procreation would take place?  </p>
<p>Second observation is the notion of “this Restoration and Advancement of the Female Sex to the same Freedom and Dignity with the Male shall prove in the Event, the Glory of this Age.”  You see this idea repeated over and over in early Mormon women&#8217;s discourse, the Exponent, and RS narratives by Eliza, Emmeline, and others, with their specific tack being that it was the organization of the RS that paved the way for that ultimate emancipation of women. But most compelling was how they could so easily juxtapose that emancipation with the practice of polygamy, and in a patriarchal culture. So, did Lead see that emancipation taking a specific form?  Was it spiritual, political, sexual/familial, or did it involve throwing off forms of earthly or eternal patriarchy?  Richards doesn&#8217;t seem to be as interested in the gendered significance of her prophecies, but it begs some comparisons.</p>
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		<title>By: John T.</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/jane-lead-and-the-restoration-or-in-praise-our-heavenly-mother/comment-page-1/#comment-239413</link>
		<dc:creator>John T.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2012 04:26:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=10895#comment-239413</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Fascinating!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fascinating!</p>
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		<title>By: EdwardJ</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/jane-lead-and-the-restoration-or-in-praise-our-heavenly-mother/comment-page-1/#comment-239372</link>
		<dc:creator>EdwardJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2012 22:51:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=10895#comment-239372</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Amazing find, Steve!  Any more light we can gain re Heavenly Mother and Her prophetesses is wonderful.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amazing find, Steve!  Any more light we can gain re Heavenly Mother and Her prophetesses is wonderful.</p>
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