Comments on: Guest Post: Mormons, Indian Displacement, and Useable Pasts

By: Juvenile Instructor » Book Review: Jared Farmer’s On Zion’s Mount: Mormons, Indians, and the American Landscape

Sat, 19 Dec 2009 06:25:56 +0000

[...] On Zion’s Mount: Mormons, Indians, and the American Landscape, which we’ve discussed before on the blog. Farmer’s book has won a ton of awards, most notably the Francis Parkman Prize [...]

By: Times & Seasons » Pioneers and Indians in Utah Valley

Times & Seasons » Pioneers and Indians in Utah Valley — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 19:38:50 +0000

[...] but the busy bloggers at Juvenile Instructor beat me to the punch and even got the author to do a guest post with selections from the book. So I’ll settle for a discussion of the interesting tale of how [...]

By: PJD

PJD — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 20:35:50 +0000

If a book can be judged on insightful intelligent, and thought provoking discussion, “On Zion’s Mount” would seem worthy of additional recognition. What discounts such acclaim would be debasing extraordinary achievement with inconsequential drivel.
As stated earlier, the book is well written and includes many insightful views; however, I feel it lacks the deserving documentation of a people who overcame monumental obstacles to create a long lasting community of historical significance. (Especially 1846-1900).
While the “Indian Question” was never properly resolved by Mormons, or any other people, it wasn’t from lack of earnest intent. Likewise, some of the great minds of the last 200 years spent much of their lives exploring proper resolution to this very same issue. Jefferson, Jackson, even Sam Houston (who was considered a close ally to the Cherokee Nation), eventually made disastrous decisions which would ultimately lead to eviction of native peoples. Indigenous people believed the land belonged to no man, while white Anglo settlers thought otherwise. With views so polarized, is a resolution possible?

By: Christopher

Christopher — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 08:36:53 +0000

I lose interest when Historians provide their slant

PJD, I’d be interested in any scholarly historical work (or any writing for that matter) that doesn’t include the author’s own “slant.” Much scholarship often reveals as much about the author’s own worldview as it does abut the subject (s)he is addressing. It’s largely inescapable.

In addition, and in an equally inescapable way, readers also interpret a text according to their own biases and with their own slants. Your comments reveal that you read the book with certain assumptions and attitudes, while David G., myself, and many others read it with different expectations and assumptions about the author and his work.

I think additional exploration into, treatment of indigenous people of Utah Valley by Mormons vs. the typical treatment of indigenous Americans by European white immigrants, would have been more ground breaking.

While I agree that work remains to be done regarding Mormon concepts of Native peoples in 19th century America, and that examining those attitudes within the context of larger national and racial trends, the topic has been treated before and is hardly “ground breaking.” Conversely, situating Mormon interaction with American Indians within a context of environmental history and sacred space, as Farmer’s book does so well, is in fact quite groundbreaking.

By: PJD

PJD — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 17:38:46 +0000

David,

I think additional exploration into, treatment of indigenous people of Utah Valley by Mormons vs. the typical treatment of indigenous Americans by European white immigrants, would have been more ground breaking. Jared touches briefly on it but there are numerous contrasts.

By: David G.

David G. — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 20:29:07 +0000

Armand Mauss is the leading scholar today on Mormon ideologies of lineage and race. Sondra Jones has published important articles on Indian slavery and Mormon-Indian relations in the UHQ and has had a book published by the U of U press on Indian slavery. Howard Christy is likewise recognized as an important scholar of Mormon-Indian relations. These people are hardly marginal. Jared does not use Tullidge as a secondary source, but rather as a primary reference to show how stories had been invented and exaggerated over time.

As to your other point, I’ll just repeat that Jared was sufficiently sympathetic to Mormon belief claims. He could have gone quite a bit further in his analysis in terms of criticizing Mormon religion, but he chose not to.

By: PJD

PJD — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 20:05:13 +0000

While I thought the premise was good, and kudos to Jared for the exhausting research, referenced quotes from people like Armand Mauss, Sandra Jones, Howard Christy and Tullidge’s histories (including anonymous recollections) are vague, multi-interpretational, and quite frankly, sketchy at best.
I think he did a marvelous job providing the background into Indian name origins, legend of the Leapers, and the famous bathing and healing waters, etc of the time.
However, I lose interest when Historians provide their slant, which was clearly felt, in relation to theology, religious intentions by prophetic leaders, and faith based interpretive events. When looking through a rearview mirror of 150 years, everything seems so clear. However, in moments of decision (i.e. B Young leading thousands of people across a challenging land), men must rely on God, which when written, must be just that, left to individual impression and not blatant speculation.

By: Christopher

Christopher — Tue, 17 Jun 2008 16:58:11 +0000

David G., he’s probably referring to fringe historians like the ones that praised Farmer’s book on the back cover of the dust jacket … you know, scholars like Richard Bushman and Richard White. /end sarcasm/

By: David G.

David G. — Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:48:03 +0000

Wow, PJD, you came away from this book with a very different impression than I did. I felt that in many places where jared could have followed a harsher interpretation of the Mormon history he instead chose a more moderate path. On the whole, I felt that Jared was rather sympathetic to Mormons in the book. Which fringe historians are you referring to?

By: PJD

PJD — Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:18:05 +0000

I just finished the book and found it, at times, to be interesting however throughout I felt as if the author was trying to force feed me into swallowing his hidden agenda. The author chooses to quote fringe historians and controversial episodes to paint the Mormon community as criminal, cultish, and imperialistic.
Legend and history have always intertwined yet Farmer is kind enough to differentiate for the benefit of the common dullard. If he hadn’t, I think we would all still believe in the Timpanogas Cave heart, a reclined mountain squaw, and Robert Redford’s minimal carbon footprint.
I would change the title of this book to, “I grew up in Provo, moved to California, and now need to justify my lifestyle regarding organized religion” Oh, and his next book will be, “ On Jerusalem’s Mount; How Mormons caused the Israeli / Palestinian conflict.”