Comments on: From the Center to the Periphery: The Place of Sacrament Altars in Mormon Worship Space http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-center-to-the-periphery-the-place-of-sacrament-altars-in-mormon-worship-space/ Fri, 10 Feb 2012 00:20:29 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Juvenile Instructor » Sacred Space Symposium Notes: Jeanne Halgren Kilde, Sacred Space, and Architecture http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-center-to-the-periphery-the-place-of-sacrament-altars-in-mormon-worship-space/comment-page-1/#comment-38023 Juvenile Instructor » Sacred Space Symposium Notes: Jeanne Halgren Kilde, Sacred Space, and Architecture Wed, 03 Jun 2009 18:19:35 +0000 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-center-to-the-periphery-the-place-of-sacrament-tables-in-mormon-worship-space/#comment-38023 [...] who wants to read more on this, see this excellent guest post from Jeffrey Cannon. [...] [...] who wants to read more on this, see this excellent guest post from Jeffrey Cannon. [...]

]]> By: Juvenile Instructor » N. Eldon Tanner on the “Blessing, Ordaining, and Setting Apart” of Spencer W. Kimball http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-center-to-the-periphery-the-place-of-sacrament-altars-in-mormon-worship-space/comment-page-1/#comment-2230 Juvenile Instructor » N. Eldon Tanner on the “Blessing, Ordaining, and Setting Apart” of Spencer W. Kimball Mon, 04 Feb 2008 22:13:06 +0000 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-center-to-the-periphery-the-place-of-sacrament-tables-in-mormon-worship-space/#comment-2230 [...] By Jeffrey G. Cannon  [...] [...] By Jeffrey G. Cannon  [...]

]]> By: bfwebster http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-center-to-the-periphery-the-place-of-sacrament-altars-in-mormon-worship-space/comment-page-1/#comment-1183 bfwebster Wed, 19 Dec 2007 02:25:29 +0000 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-center-to-the-periphery-the-place-of-sacrament-tables-in-mormon-worship-space/#comment-1183 It strikes me that the relocation of the sacrament altar/table from dead center to one side probably has far more to do with simplifying and standardizing architecture than any (un)conscious theological/liturgical shift. For all our 'radical theology', we Mormons tend to be rather pragmatic about a lot of things (cf. Nibley's comments about the Provo Temple, "It's not a temple, it's an endowment house."). ..bruce.. It strikes me that the relocation of the sacrament altar/table from dead center to one side probably has far more to do with simplifying and standardizing architecture than any (un)conscious theological/liturgical shift. For all our ‘radical theology’, we Mormons tend to be rather pragmatic about a lot of things (cf. Nibley’s comments about the Provo Temple, “It’s not a temple, it’s an endowment house.”). ..bruce..

]]> By: stan http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-center-to-the-periphery-the-place-of-sacrament-altars-in-mormon-worship-space/comment-page-1/#comment-1026 stan Fri, 14 Dec 2007 00:39:30 +0000 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-center-to-the-periphery-the-place-of-sacrament-tables-in-mormon-worship-space/#comment-1026 "I’ve only heard folklore (though some of it from reliable sources) that a lot of the more impressive ornamentation was lost during a Mark E. Peterson driven iconoclasm. My favorite story involves Elder Peterson with an assistant going around Salt Lake, chisel in hand and defacing public buildings of their all seeing eyes." J: I haven't heard this story, but there was some defacing in Spring City, Sanpete County; particularly a small rock schoolhouse, sometimes called the old endowment house, had a square and compass chiseled off the front of it. In a UHQ article Allen D. Roberts attributes the action to direction by Elders Kimball and Benson (in the 70s or 80s) because they felt it might confuse members to see the symbols displayed in public. There are other examples in paint: the interior of the St. George tabernacle had an all-seeing eye on the wall that was painted over at some point and later restored (I've heard it was restored for the filming of the movie "Windows of Heaven"). Also, the Assembly Hall on Temple Square used to have ornate murals on the ceiling, including the eye over a beehive, busts of prophets, and early temples. It was painted over during a renovation. I think most ornamentation was lost through demolition of buildings however, like the Kaneville Tabernacle. “I’ve only heard folklore (though some of it from reliable sources) that a lot of the more impressive ornamentation was lost during a Mark E. Peterson driven iconoclasm. My favorite story involves Elder Peterson with an assistant going around Salt Lake, chisel in hand and defacing public buildings of their all seeing eyes.”

J: I haven’t heard this story, but there was some defacing in Spring City, Sanpete County; particularly a small rock schoolhouse, sometimes called the old endowment house, had a square and compass chiseled off the front of it. In a UHQ article Allen D. Roberts attributes the action to direction by Elders Kimball and Benson (in the 70s or 80s) because they felt it might confuse members to see the symbols displayed in public. There are other examples in paint: the interior of the St. George tabernacle had an all-seeing eye on the wall that was painted over at some point and later restored (I’ve heard it was restored for the filming of the movie “Windows of Heaven”). Also, the Assembly Hall on Temple Square used to have ornate murals on the ceiling, including the eye over a beehive, busts of prophets, and early temples. It was painted over during a renovation. I think most ornamentation was lost through demolition of buildings however, like the Kaneville Tabernacle.

]]> By: J. Stapley http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-center-to-the-periphery-the-place-of-sacrament-altars-in-mormon-worship-space/comment-page-1/#comment-1024 J. Stapley Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:36:07 +0000 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-center-to-the-periphery-the-place-of-sacrament-tables-in-mormon-worship-space/#comment-1024 David, unfortunately, not all wards and stakes are so fortunate. Still, there are those in the Church Hierarchy that appear to foster such notions. David, unfortunately, not all wards and stakes are so fortunate. Still, there are those in the Church Hierarchy that appear to foster such notions.

]]> By: BHodges http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-center-to-the-periphery-the-place-of-sacrament-altars-in-mormon-worship-space/comment-page-1/#comment-1021 BHodges Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:17:39 +0000 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-center-to-the-periphery-the-place-of-sacrament-tables-in-mormon-worship-space/#comment-1021 Interesting stuff. There was a small upper room in an old chapel I used to attend in Hooper. To access the room you would climb a ladder from the stage in the cultural hall. It was used as a classroom at the time, about 1990. The building has since burned down, but I wonder if that upper room was used for prayer circles. I'm glad the alter still holds a significant place in the temples. Interesting stuff. There was a small upper room in an old chapel I used to attend in Hooper. To access the room you would climb a ladder from the stage in the cultural hall. It was used as a classroom at the time, about 1990. The building has since burned down, but I wonder if that upper room was used for prayer circles.

I’m glad the alter still holds a significant place in the temples.

]]> By: Christopher http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-center-to-the-periphery-the-place-of-sacrament-altars-in-mormon-worship-space/comment-page-1/#comment-1018 Christopher Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:37:12 +0000 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-center-to-the-periphery-the-place-of-sacrament-tables-in-mormon-worship-space/#comment-1018 It is interesting to note that some LDS chapels have a unique set-up that hasn't been mentioned here. The Parley's Ward building in SLC has seats for the Priesthood leadership situated front and center on the stand, with the sacrament table to one side and the pulpit on the other side. My understanding is that the building isn't that old, built in the mid-20th century. It is interesting to note that some LDS chapels have a unique set-up that hasn’t been mentioned here. The Parley’s Ward building in SLC has seats for the Priesthood leadership situated front and center on the stand, with the sacrament table to one side and the pulpit on the other side. My understanding is that the building isn’t that old, built in the mid-20th century.

]]> By: David Grua http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-center-to-the-periphery-the-place-of-sacrament-altars-in-mormon-worship-space/comment-page-1/#comment-1017 David Grua Thu, 13 Dec 2007 18:58:29 +0000 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-center-to-the-periphery-the-place-of-sacrament-tables-in-mormon-worship-space/#comment-1017 J.: As part of my duties as exec. sec., I assign individuals to give prayers in my BYU ward. I had been told that the opening prayer must be given by a priesthood holder and that the closing prayer could be given by a sister. I recently (by accident) reversed the order, which set off a round of emails from members of the bishopric trying to "correct" the order before the Sunday meeting. The good news in the story is that the little fiasco got the bishop to look in the manual and discover that his policy did not find support there, and I've been told since that the order doesn't matter. J.: As part of my duties as exec. sec., I assign individuals to give prayers in my BYU ward. I had been told that the opening prayer must be given by a priesthood holder and that the closing prayer could be given by a sister. I recently (by accident) reversed the order, which set off a round of emails from members of the bishopric trying to “correct” the order before the Sunday meeting. The good news in the story is that the little fiasco got the bishop to look in the manual and discover that his policy did not find support there, and I’ve been told since that the order doesn’t matter.

]]> By: J. Stapley http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-center-to-the-periphery-the-place-of-sacrament-altars-in-mormon-worship-space/comment-page-1/#comment-1016 J. Stapley Thu, 13 Dec 2007 17:46:47 +0000 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-center-to-the-periphery-the-place-of-sacrament-tables-in-mormon-worship-space/#comment-1016 If I remember right, Andrew Jensen talks about the construction of altars in the various ward chapels under their specific entries in his <em>Encyclopedic History</em>. The Bellevue Stake Center a couple of miles from where I currently live and grew up had a special altar room until the 70's for the Stake High Council circle. My research is focused on healing rituals, and this Conference excerpt from Reed Smoot reflects that interest but as well highlights the communal ritualism of the Saints: <blockquote>In this connection I may say that we have prayer circles in this Church. Every Bishop has a right to have a prayer circle in his ward, and I sincerely hope that there is no Stake in Zion without one, and if there is, my advice is to organize one as soon as possible. There is not a week passes but these circles meet, and they are composed of men of God, who hold the Priesthood, and who are supposed to be clean in every respect, having a knowledge that God lives, obeying all His commandments, and observing the Word of Wisdom; and the Saints should have the privilege of having their sick remembered in these circles. (Reed Smoot,<em> Conference Report,</em> April 1901, 4-5)</blockquote> Jeffrey: <em>It wasn’t that long ago that women were given the opportunity to pray in sacrament meeting.</em> I tend to agree with your broader sentiment (Just look at the accounts of Sunday Services in the Tabernacle for a dramatic contrast). I'm not too sure about this specific assertion regarding prayer. It appears that the policy came into effect via <em>Priesthood Bulletin</em> in 1967, with formal codification in the great correlated 1968 handbook (i.e., non-priesthood holders could not pray). I would imagine that traditional priesthood focus would have likely resulted in a preponderance of men praying before that time, but I don't think women were barred. About a decade later, President repealed the proscription as being contra-scriptural ("Sisters Can Pray in All Meetings," <em>Church News </em>(October 7, 1978), 6). Various incarnations of the policy have been passed down via word of mouth instruction, specifically that a priesthood holder must open the sacrament meeting, but this of course defies the current handbook. If I remember right, Andrew Jensen talks about the construction of altars in the various ward chapels under their specific entries in his Encyclopedic History. The Bellevue Stake Center a couple of miles from where I currently live and grew up had a special altar room until the 70′s for the Stake High Council circle.

My research is focused on healing rituals, and this Conference excerpt from Reed Smoot reflects that interest but as well highlights the communal ritualism of the Saints:

In this connection I may say that we have prayer circles in this Church. Every Bishop has a right to have a prayer circle in his ward, and I sincerely hope that there is no Stake in Zion without one, and if there is, my advice is to organize one as soon as possible. There is not a week passes but these circles meet, and they are composed of men of God, who hold the Priesthood, and who are supposed to be clean in every respect, having a knowledge that God lives, obeying all His commandments, and observing the Word of Wisdom; and the Saints should have the privilege of having their sick remembered in these circles. (Reed Smoot, Conference Report, April 1901, 4-5)

Jeffrey: It wasn’t that long ago that women were given the opportunity to pray in sacrament meeting.

I tend to agree with your broader sentiment (Just look at the accounts of Sunday Services in the Tabernacle for a dramatic contrast). I’m not too sure about this specific assertion regarding prayer. It appears that the policy came into effect via Priesthood Bulletin in 1967, with formal codification in the great correlated 1968 handbook (i.e., non-priesthood holders could not pray). I would imagine that traditional priesthood focus would have likely resulted in a preponderance of men praying before that time, but I don’t think women were barred. About a decade later, President repealed the proscription as being contra-scriptural (“Sisters Can Pray in All Meetings,” Church News (October 7, 1978), 6). Various incarnations of the policy have been passed down via word of mouth instruction, specifically that a priesthood holder must open the sacrament meeting, but this of course defies the current handbook.

]]> By: Jeffrey Cannon http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-center-to-the-periphery-the-place-of-sacrament-altars-in-mormon-worship-space/comment-page-1/#comment-1015 Jeffrey Cannon Thu, 13 Dec 2007 17:18:40 +0000 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-center-to-the-periphery-the-place-of-sacrament-tables-in-mormon-worship-space/#comment-1015 The fact these prayer rooms have been converted into classrooms in many cases may be an extension of the phenomenon of replacing the sacrament altar as the architectural focus of the chapel with the pulpit alone. Placing the pulpit as the visual and liturgical focus is indicative of the Church’s emphasis on learning and the revealed Word. It is also indicative of a more democratic approach to worship as more people (i.e., non-priesthood holders—especially women) are given greater opportunities to participate. It wasn’t that long ago that women were given the opportunity to pray in sacrament meeting. The fact these prayer rooms have been converted into classrooms in many cases may be an extension of the phenomenon of replacing the sacrament altar as the architectural focus of the chapel with the pulpit alone. Placing the pulpit as the visual and liturgical focus is indicative of the Church’s emphasis on learning and the revealed Word. It is also indicative of a more democratic approach to worship as more people (i.e., non-priesthood holders—especially women) are given greater opportunities to participate. It wasn’t that long ago that women were given the opportunity to pray in sacrament meeting.

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