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	<title>Comments on: From the Archives: David Whitmer on Joseph Smith and his Followers</title>
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	<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-archives-david-whitmer-on-joseph-smith-and-his-legacy/</link>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-archives-david-whitmer-on-joseph-smith-and-his-legacy/comment-page-1/#comment-53398</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:24:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Patrick: This text was definitely written by David Whitmer because it was a pamphlet published by him. The pamphlet is available in various forms, and could probably be found on the internet. The context and agenda behind Whitmer&#039;s writing is probably best examined in Michael Marquardt&#039;s article in &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/Scattering-Saints-Schism-Within-Mormonism/dp/1934901024/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1259068907&amp;sr=8-1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Scattering of the Saints&lt;/a&gt;.

Joseph Smith&#039;s use of a seer stone while translating is pretty well documented. A good article on it is Richard Van Wagoner and Steven Walker&#039;s dialogue article, &quot;The Gift of Seeing.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patrick: This text was definitely written by David Whitmer because it was a pamphlet published by him. The pamphlet is available in various forms, and could probably be found on the internet. The context and agenda behind Whitmer&#8217;s writing is probably best examined in Michael Marquardt&#8217;s article in <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Scattering-Saints-Schism-Within-Mormonism/dp/1934901024/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&#038;s=books&#038;qid=1259068907&#038;sr=8-1" rel="nofollow">Scattering of the Saints</a>.</p>
<p>Joseph Smith&#8217;s use of a seer stone while translating is pretty well documented. A good article on it is Richard Van Wagoner and Steven Walker&#8217;s dialogue article, &#8220;The Gift of Seeing.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-archives-david-whitmer-on-joseph-smith-and-his-legacy/comment-page-1/#comment-53382</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 10:19:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>does any one know how I can get more info on all this? Like how we know if this is really written by David whitmer or not? Or where it can be found in church archives,etc that Joseph smith did ordain him(david whitmer) to be the next prophet of the church? I just want to know the truth from relible sources and not from a source that could fabricted or forged and from someone who does&#039;nt have an axe to gring know what I mean? I must say I agree with most of what he says the only thing I&#039;m unsure of is the whole stone thing! Does any one know if there&#039;s anything found in the bible to support the use of a stone for this purpose?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>does any one know how I can get more info on all this? Like how we know if this is really written by David whitmer or not? Or where it can be found in church archives,etc that Joseph smith did ordain him(david whitmer) to be the next prophet of the church? I just want to know the truth from relible sources and not from a source that could fabricted or forged and from someone who does&#8217;nt have an axe to gring know what I mean? I must say I agree with most of what he says the only thing I&#8217;m unsure of is the whole stone thing! Does any one know if there&#8217;s anything found in the bible to support the use of a stone for this purpose?</p>
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		<title>By: Cowboy</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-archives-david-whitmer-on-joseph-smith-and-his-legacy/comment-page-1/#comment-12062</link>
		<dc:creator>Cowboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 17:30:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-archives-david-whitmer-on-joseph-smith-and-his-legacy/#comment-12062</guid>
		<description>&quot;As stated above, polygamy was introduced 6 years after Whitmers excommunication.&quot;

Whitmer was excommunicated in 1838, he say&#039;s in the first part of the address that a voice commanded him to seperate himself from the saints.  Polygamy was not formally introduced into the Church until the 1850&#039;s (1854 I believe) under Brigham Young.  Joseph Smith was secretly practicing under the knowledge of select men within his circle during the late 1830&#039;s, and at least practicing possibly as early as 1833, and likely 1835 if we assume that Fanny Alger was the first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;As stated above, polygamy was introduced 6 years after Whitmers excommunication.&#8221;</p>
<p>Whitmer was excommunicated in 1838, he say&#8217;s in the first part of the address that a voice commanded him to seperate himself from the saints.  Polygamy was not formally introduced into the Church until the 1850&#8242;s (1854 I believe) under Brigham Young.  Joseph Smith was secretly practicing under the knowledge of select men within his circle during the late 1830&#8242;s, and at least practicing possibly as early as 1833, and likely 1835 if we assume that Fanny Alger was the first.</p>
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		<title>By: Best of the Week 6: Academic LDS : Mormon Metaphysics</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-archives-david-whitmer-on-joseph-smith-and-his-legacy/comment-page-1/#comment-11975</link>
		<dc:creator>Best of the Week 6: Academic LDS : Mormon Metaphysics</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 23:58:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-archives-david-whitmer-on-joseph-smith-and-his-legacy/#comment-11975</guid>
		<description>[...] reposts a nice discussion of David Whitmer and his followers from the archives. The original post is more about Whitmer&#8217;s take on Joseph Smith as a fallen [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] reposts a nice discussion of David Whitmer and his followers from the archives. The original post is more about Whitmer&#8217;s take on Joseph Smith as a fallen [...]</p>
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		<title>By: PJD</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-archives-david-whitmer-on-joseph-smith-and-his-legacy/comment-page-1/#comment-11841</link>
		<dc:creator>PJD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2008 00:42:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-archives-david-whitmer-on-joseph-smith-and-his-legacy/#comment-11841</guid>
		<description>Going back to David Whitmer, I find it intersting that his dissertion from the church was mainly due to the failure of the Kirtland Safety Society Bank and its fallout.  It appears that upon organizing his own church, he instilled the worldly viewed, negative aspects of Josephs persona, to justify his own unfaithfullness.  As stated above, polygamy was introduced 6 years after Whitmers excommunication.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Going back to David Whitmer, I find it intersting that his dissertion from the church was mainly due to the failure of the Kirtland Safety Society Bank and its fallout.  It appears that upon organizing his own church, he instilled the worldly viewed, negative aspects of Josephs persona, to justify his own unfaithfullness.  As stated above, polygamy was introduced 6 years after Whitmers excommunication.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-archives-david-whitmer-on-joseph-smith-and-his-legacy/comment-page-1/#comment-11791</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 08:52:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-archives-david-whitmer-on-joseph-smith-and-his-legacy/#comment-11791</guid>
		<description>Jim,

Perhaps the following from pp. 50-1 of &lt;em&gt;Address&lt;/em&gt; will be of help:

&lt;blockquote&gt;The twelve at Jerusalem are called in the written word &quot;Apostles.&quot; They are apostles because they were special witnesses to the sufferings of Christ, His death, burial and resurrection: but the twelve which Christ chose on this land are called disciples or elders, and are not once called apostles in the Book of Mormon. In the revelation which came through the stone in June, 1829, to Oliver Cowdery and myself to search out the twelve, they are also called disciples, and not apostles; and the revelation says &quot;disciples&quot; in the Book of Commandments to-day. But it has been changed in the Doctrine and Covenants to read &quot;apostles.&quot; The heading to this revelation in the Book of Commandments says: &quot;Making known the calling of twelve &#039;Disciples&#039; in these last days.&quot; In the Doctrines and Covenants to reads: &quot;Making known the calling of twelve &#039;Apostles&#039; in these last days.&quot; In 1 Nephi iii:26, where reference is made to the twelve at Jerusalem and the twelve upon this land, each twelve are called by their respective names: &quot;Behold the twelve &#039;Disciples&#039; of the Lamb, who are chosen to minister unto thy seed. And he (the angel) said unto me, thou remembereth the twelve &#039;Apostles&#039; of the Lamb? Behold they are they who shall judge the twelve tribes of Israel: wherefore, the twelve ministers of thy seed shall be judged of them.&quot; The twelve on this land are called disciples, and not in any place are they called apostles. When Christ was teaching the twelve on this land, in giving them instructions He refers to the way His twelve apostles did at Jerusalem in the laying on of hands, saying to them: &quot;For thus do mine apostles.&quot;

In 1 Cor. xii:28, it says: &quot;And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets,&quot; etc. He did so, placing the twelve apostles first, which he chose at Jerusalem: they are to judge the twelve tribes of Israel, and they are to judge the twelve disciples whom Christ chose on this land among the Nephites. Therefore, we see from the written word that there is only one twelve who are called apostles, and that they are placed first.

When it is God&#039;s own due time to gather up the scattered fragments of his kingdom which has been laid waste by men, then we suppose that God will place at the head of his church twelve disciples; but we of the Church of Christ will not place them there, unless God so commands us. This is God&#039;s work and not man&#039;s work. We do not believe in twelve man-made disciples.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim,</p>
<p>Perhaps the following from pp. 50-1 of <em>Address</em> will be of help:</p>
<blockquote><p>The twelve at Jerusalem are called in the written word &#8220;Apostles.&#8221; They are apostles because they were special witnesses to the sufferings of Christ, His death, burial and resurrection: but the twelve which Christ chose on this land are called disciples or elders, and are not once called apostles in the Book of Mormon. In the revelation which came through the stone in June, 1829, to Oliver Cowdery and myself to search out the twelve, they are also called disciples, and not apostles; and the revelation says &#8220;disciples&#8221; in the Book of Commandments to-day. But it has been changed in the Doctrine and Covenants to read &#8220;apostles.&#8221; The heading to this revelation in the Book of Commandments says: &#8220;Making known the calling of twelve &#8216;Disciples&#8217; in these last days.&#8221; In the Doctrines and Covenants to reads: &#8220;Making known the calling of twelve &#8216;Apostles&#8217; in these last days.&#8221; In 1 Nephi iii:26, where reference is made to the twelve at Jerusalem and the twelve upon this land, each twelve are called by their respective names: &#8220;Behold the twelve &#8216;Disciples&#8217; of the Lamb, who are chosen to minister unto thy seed. And he (the angel) said unto me, thou remembereth the twelve &#8216;Apostles&#8217; of the Lamb? Behold they are they who shall judge the twelve tribes of Israel: wherefore, the twelve ministers of thy seed shall be judged of them.&#8221; The twelve on this land are called disciples, and not in any place are they called apostles. When Christ was teaching the twelve on this land, in giving them instructions He refers to the way His twelve apostles did at Jerusalem in the laying on of hands, saying to them: &#8220;For thus do mine apostles.&#8221;</p>
<p>In 1 Cor. xii:28, it says: &#8220;And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets,&#8221; etc. He did so, placing the twelve apostles first, which he chose at Jerusalem: they are to judge the twelve tribes of Israel, and they are to judge the twelve disciples whom Christ chose on this land among the Nephites. Therefore, we see from the written word that there is only one twelve who are called apostles, and that they are placed first.</p>
<p>When it is God&#8217;s own due time to gather up the scattered fragments of his kingdom which has been laid waste by men, then we suppose that God will place at the head of his church twelve disciples; but we of the Church of Christ will not place them there, unless God so commands us. This is God&#8217;s work and not man&#8217;s work. We do not believe in twelve man-made disciples.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Jim B</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-archives-david-whitmer-on-joseph-smith-and-his-legacy/comment-page-1/#comment-11789</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 04:58:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-archives-david-whitmer-on-joseph-smith-and-his-legacy/#comment-11789</guid>
		<description>I have read Whitmer&#039;s explanation that he rejected the principle that there should be the Office of High Priest in the higher Priesthood, but have never seen where he explained his participation the setting apart and ordaining the first quorum of the 12 Apostles.  Have I missed something did he ever explain that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have read Whitmer&#8217;s explanation that he rejected the principle that there should be the Office of High Priest in the higher Priesthood, but have never seen where he explained his participation the setting apart and ordaining the first quorum of the 12 Apostles.  Have I missed something did he ever explain that?</p>
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		<title>By: Clark</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-archives-david-whitmer-on-joseph-smith-and-his-legacy/comment-page-1/#comment-11788</link>
		<dc:creator>Clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 02:41:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-archives-david-whitmer-on-joseph-smith-and-his-legacy/#comment-11788</guid>
		<description>My bad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My bad.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-archives-david-whitmer-on-joseph-smith-and-his-legacy/comment-page-1/#comment-11785</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 23:36:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-archives-david-whitmer-on-joseph-smith-and-his-legacy/#comment-11785</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;By the way, thanks for coming to hear my Sunstone presentation, Ben. The support was much appreciated. Happy to return the favor sometime.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Christopher: then come on out to Voree for JWHA :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>By the way, thanks for coming to hear my Sunstone presentation, Ben. The support was much appreciated. Happy to return the favor sometime.</p></blockquote>
<p>Christopher: then come on out to Voree for JWHA <img src='http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-archives-david-whitmer-on-joseph-smith-and-his-legacy/comment-page-1/#comment-11781</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 22:19:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-archives-david-whitmer-on-joseph-smith-and-his-legacy/#comment-11781</guid>
		<description>Clark: sorry to be confusing, but our &quot;from the archives&quot; is different from other blogs where they just pull out a previous post. Rather, this is how Christopher described ours in the original &quot;from the archives&quot; post:

&lt;blockquote&gt;This post marks the first post in what aims to be a regular feature of The Juvenile Instructor, “From the Archives.” Each post will feature an interesting quote or entry from an early LDS journal, periodical, sermon, or letter.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So, rather than digging into our own blog&#039;s archives, we are digging into actual historical documents. 

Sorry for the confusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clark: sorry to be confusing, but our &#8220;from the archives&#8221; is different from other blogs where they just pull out a previous post. Rather, this is how Christopher described ours in the original &#8220;from the archives&#8221; post:</p>
<blockquote><p>This post marks the first post in what aims to be a regular feature of The Juvenile Instructor, “From the Archives.” Each post will feature an interesting quote or entry from an early LDS journal, periodical, sermon, or letter.</p></blockquote>
<p>So, rather than digging into our own blog&#8217;s archives, we are digging into actual historical documents. </p>
<p>Sorry for the confusion.</p>
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