Comments on: From the Archives: A Presbyterian Minister on the Mormon Belief in Pre-Existence, 1840 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-archives-a-presbyterian-minister-on-the-mormon-belief-in-pre-existence-1840/ Fri, 10 Sep 2010 14:14:20 -0400 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Juvenile Instructor » A View of Latter-day Saints in New Jersey, 1856 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-archives-a-presbyterian-minister-on-the-mormon-belief-in-pre-existence-1840/comment-page-1/#comment-2218 Juvenile Instructor » A View of Latter-day Saints in New Jersey, 1856 Mon, 04 Feb 2008 16:50:06 +0000 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=47#comment-2218 [...] This paper was located and transcribed by Stephen J. Fleming. See footnote 2. [...] [...] This paper was located and transcribed by Stephen J. Fleming. See footnote 2. [...]

]]> By: Monday Blogspotting in Bloggernacle « Heart Issues for LDS http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-archives-a-presbyterian-minister-on-the-mormon-belief-in-pre-existence-1840/comment-page-1/#comment-218 Monday Blogspotting in Bloggernacle « Heart Issues for LDS Mon, 05 Nov 2007 21:04:20 +0000 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=47#comment-218 [...] spirits: Geoff at New Cool Thang questions the infinite amount of pre-existent spirits, while Presbyterian Henry Perkins questions the LDS doctrine of pre-existence [...] [...] spirits: Geoff at New Cool Thang questions the infinite amount of pre-existent spirits, while Presbyterian Henry Perkins questions the LDS doctrine of pre-existence [...]

]]> By: smb http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-archives-a-presbyterian-minister-on-the-mormon-belief-in-pre-existence-1840/comment-page-1/#comment-217 smb Sun, 04 Nov 2007 05:33:27 +0000 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=47#comment-217 Agreed, it plays with the fairly typical (and idiosyncratically) animistic metaphysical view of all creation as representing emanations of the central divine essence. Agreed, it plays with the fairly typical (and idiosyncratically) animistic metaphysical view of all creation as representing emanations of the central divine essence.

]]> By: David Grua http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-archives-a-presbyterian-minister-on-the-mormon-belief-in-pre-existence-1840/comment-page-1/#comment-216 David Grua Sun, 04 Nov 2007 05:30:11 +0000 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=47#comment-216 smb: That's interesting that he uses the word "emanated." Not exactly the same thing as "coeval," now is it. smb: That’s interesting that he uses the word “emanated.” Not exactly the same thing as “coeval,” now is it.

]]> By: smb http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-archives-a-presbyterian-minister-on-the-mormon-belief-in-pre-existence-1840/comment-page-1/#comment-215 smb Sun, 04 Nov 2007 05:20:39 +0000 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=47#comment-215 Incidentally, Harrell claims the 1835 Letter No. 8 as the first printed reference to preexistence, but regarding Enoch, Phelps wrote in a hymn: “With God he saw his race began,/And from him emanated man,/And with him did in glory dwell,/Before there was an earth or hell.” -------------------- [William Phelps] “Songs of Zion,” The Evening and the Morning Star 1, no. 12 (May 1833): 96. Phelps was rephrasing the Kirtland Revelation book. See Hicks, Mormonism and Music, 36. Incidentally, Harrell claims the 1835 Letter No. 8 as the first printed reference to preexistence, but regarding Enoch, Phelps wrote in a hymn: “With God he saw his race began,/And from him emanated man,/And with him did in glory dwell,/Before there was an earth or hell.”
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[William Phelps] “Songs of Zion,” The Evening and the Morning Star 1, no. 12 (May 1833): 96. Phelps was rephrasing the Kirtland Revelation book. See Hicks, Mormonism and Music, 36.

]]> By: David Grua http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-archives-a-presbyterian-minister-on-the-mormon-belief-in-pre-existence-1840/comment-page-1/#comment-214 David Grua Sun, 04 Nov 2007 05:14:07 +0000 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=47#comment-214 SMB: Thanks for stopping by. I think you're right that Protestants would have seen Mormon preexistence through that lens. How does Turner's critique compare with Perkins? SMB: Thanks for stopping by. I think you’re right that Protestants would have seen Mormon preexistence through that lens.

How does Turner’s critique compare with Perkins?

]]> By: smb http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-archives-a-presbyterian-minister-on-the-mormon-belief-in-pre-existence-1840/comment-page-1/#comment-213 smb Sun, 04 Nov 2007 05:05:40 +0000 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=47#comment-213 I think the fruitful approach here is to situate it within the "pre-existence of Christ" a much-discussed theme among the orthodox. Makes the pre-existence more clearly tied to Smith's belief in the genetic identity of humans and Jesus. JB Turner has another denunciation of pre-existence in 1842, says JSJ was preaching that humans are premortal angels. I think the fruitful approach here is to situate it within the “pre-existence of Christ” a much-discussed theme among the orthodox. Makes the pre-existence more clearly tied to Smith’s belief in the genetic identity of humans and Jesus. JB Turner has another denunciation of pre-existence in 1842, says JSJ was preaching that humans are premortal angels.

]]> By: David Grua http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-archives-a-presbyterian-minister-on-the-mormon-belief-in-pre-existence-1840/comment-page-1/#comment-212 David Grua Sun, 04 Nov 2007 02:19:31 +0000 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=47#comment-212 Stapley: good point. I'll see what I can do with the Winchester thing. Stapley: good point. I’ll see what I can do with the Winchester thing.

]]> By: J. Stapley http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-archives-a-presbyterian-minister-on-the-mormon-belief-in-pre-existence-1840/comment-page-1/#comment-211 J. Stapley Sun, 04 Nov 2007 01:57:40 +0000 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=47#comment-211 Cast my vote for publishing Winchesters response. This is a great vignette. I know everyone was believing in creation ex nihilo, but I like that this was a Calvinist. In my ultra-simplified broad brushed view of the restoration, I see it as the anti-Calvinism. Cast my vote for publishing Winchesters response. This is a great vignette. I know everyone was believing in creation ex nihilo, but I like that this was a Calvinist. In my ultra-simplified broad brushed view of the restoration, I see it as the anti-Calvinism.

]]> By: David Grua http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/from-the-archives-a-presbyterian-minister-on-the-mormon-belief-in-pre-existence-1840/comment-page-1/#comment-210 David Grua Sat, 03 Nov 2007 22:14:27 +0000 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=47#comment-210 Chris: From what I understand, Terryl will only have a few pages on Mormonism in his book and he only intends to look at the major scriptural texts that deal with the doctrine. He does intend to examine the question: "Why, considering the explanatory power the doctrine has had, has belief in pre-existence been suppressed throughout history?" But I think he'll focus his discussion on major texts that repudiate the doctrine, which may mean that Henry Perkins will be overlooked. Chris: From what I understand, Terryl will only have a few pages on Mormonism in his book and he only intends to look at the major scriptural texts that deal with the doctrine. He does intend to examine the question: “Why, considering the explanatory power the doctrine has had, has belief in pre-existence been suppressed throughout history?” But I think he’ll focus his discussion on major texts that repudiate the doctrine, which may mean that Henry Perkins will be overlooked.

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