Comments on: Elder Jensen Spends Pioneer Day Address Talking About—Indians?!

By: Juvenile Instructor » “Owned by the white people”: America and Native Americans in Church History Sunday School Lessons, 1934

Tue, 10 Aug 2010 15:31:25 +0000

[...] G.: Elder Jensen Spends PioneerBob: Elder Jensen Spends PioneerDavid G.: Elder Jensen Spends PioneerBob: Elder Jensen Spends [...]

By: David G.

David G. — Tue, 10 Aug 2010 14:00:11 +0000

And we like you too, Bob. Sorry I jumped all over you there. I was working under the assumption you had a doctorate; otherwise, I would have approached our conversation very differently.

By: Bob

Bob — Tue, 10 Aug 2010 04:14:26 +0000

#36: Yes, my definition of culture is fairly static and monolithic, but I like it.
I also like you guys at JI, so I can’t be all that behind(?)

By: David G.

David G. — Mon, 09 Aug 2010 17:32:46 +0000

Oh, well that explains a lot. I thought you had a doctorate in anthropology. Yeah, your definition of culture is fairly static and monolithic, and not one that most academics would ascribe to these days, so I guess you’re right, we’re talking about different things.

By: Bob

Bob — Mon, 09 Aug 2010 17:16:40 +0000

We are talking of two different things.
I am speaking of the death of Cultures. The canoe culture of the Eastern Woods indian. The horse, nomatic, game killing culture of the Plains indians. The high cultures of the Inca and Aztec. ( I do know these peoples have descendants).
( I have no PhD, but I do try to keep up). I am glad to hear the Aztec Culture in alive and well, I guess that goes for Greece and Rome too(?)

By: David G.

David G. — Mon, 09 Aug 2010 16:05:14 +0000

Bob, did you teach at a university after getting your PhD.? Your lack of awareness of the last several decades of scholarship is mind boggling.

By: David G.

David G. — Mon, 09 Aug 2010 16:00:23 +0000

Uh, yeah, Bob. Yes, I do believe that the “vanishing Indian” motif was and is a lie. You should put a bit more thought into your examples, since each of the tribes/nations you list are still around. A lot of nations and language groups have disappeared, but none of the ones you list have.

The Five (now Six) Nations live mostly in New York and Canada. The Cherokee Nation lives primarily in Oklahoma. The Comanches live in Oklahoma, the Blackfoot live in Montana and Canada, and the Lakotas live in North and South Dakota. The Nez Perce live in Idaho. Most Apaches live in the Southwest (AZ and NM), while some live in Texas and Oklahoma. The descendants of the Aztecs live in what is known as the “Maya Region,” which includes southern Mexico, Guatemala, and Belize. The descendants of the Incas live in the Andes.

You can visit each of these tribes today and watch them perform their traditional dances, in traditional dress, and hear them speak in their langauges. Yes, the European colonization of the Americas, including the Mormon settlement of Utah, has taken a tremendous toll on these peoples, but they have not disappeared, no matter how many times you say it.

Do you really think there are no people who identify as Indians today? Who do you think John is referring to above when he talks about the older generation of Utes who still remember the early Mormons’ extermination campaigns?

By: Christopher

Christopher — Mon, 09 Aug 2010 15:54:38 +0000

Bob, it may be worth your time to read up on some of the recent literature David notes instead of defending the theories of yesteryear without any apparent understanding of what historians and anthropologists have done in the past 50-60 years.

By: Bob

Bob — Mon, 09 Aug 2010 14:33:00 +0000

( Again, sorry for my 5AM spelling.)

By: Bob

Bob — Mon, 09 Aug 2010 14:02:55 +0000

#29: “The idea of the “disappearing Indian” is a pernicious lie” ????
David, do you really belive this!?
Where are:
The five nations of the Iroquois ( Mohawks, Hurons).
The Cherokee nation.
The Plains Cultures of Comache, Blackfoot, and Latota Sioux.
The Nez Perce.
The Apache.
The Aztec and Inca……..

These Cultures are GONE.

Utah’s Black Hark War took the Utah’s Indian population from 40,000 to 2300.( Blackhawkproductions.com). This contains some work by Will Bagley.