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	<title>Comments on: Book Review: John S. Dinger, The Nauvoo City and High Council Minutes</title>
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	<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/book-review-john-s-dinger-the-nauvoo-city-and-high-council-minutes/</link>
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		<title>By: Signature Books &#187; review &#8211; The Nauvoo City and High Council Minutes</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/book-review-john-s-dinger-the-nauvoo-city-and-high-council-minutes/comment-page-1/#comment-237358</link>
		<dc:creator>Signature Books &#187; review &#8211; The Nauvoo City and High Council Minutes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2012 21:18:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=10666#comment-237358</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Reviewed by Ben Park for the Juvenile Instructor [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Reviewed by Ben Park for the Juvenile Instructor [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Paulos</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/book-review-john-s-dinger-the-nauvoo-city-and-high-council-minutes/comment-page-1/#comment-235325</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Paulos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2012 05:14:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=10666#comment-235325</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[John--Great job on the Nauvoo book and congratulations on the awards it has received. I carved out some time this past month to read it through (in part as a detox distraction from the election as well as the underperformance of BYU’s football team) and have been immensely impressed. I was most interested in your thoughtful and thorough footnotes, especially those which explained 19th century legal theory and practice. These areas were illuminating and valuable to understanding the legal context of what was happening. I also enjoyed the quantity and quality of the biographical vignettes all throughout the book.  

One aspect of the High Council notes that took me by surprise was large the number of city ordinances discussed and passed relating to dogs and pigs. These were both interesting and humorous. For large section of the minutes, it seemed like animal ordinances were considered over and over. I have no expertise in the history of city ordinances/laws, and I wonder if similar animal statues were as common for cities during this time period (or maybe I missed a footnote explaining this). 

I’m not as interested in early Mormonism as I am later time periods, there’s just something about the relative serenity of the Smoot hearings that entraps me. But I could not refrain from reading your book, as well as your previous essay published in the JMH on Habeas Corpus. Fantastic work. Maybe you’re thinking about an essay relating to the experience of animals in Nauvoo?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John&#8211;Great job on the Nauvoo book and congratulations on the awards it has received. I carved out some time this past month to read it through (in part as a detox distraction from the election as well as the underperformance of BYU’s football team) and have been immensely impressed. I was most interested in your thoughtful and thorough footnotes, especially those which explained 19th century legal theory and practice. These areas were illuminating and valuable to understanding the legal context of what was happening. I also enjoyed the quantity and quality of the biographical vignettes all throughout the book.  </p>
<p>One aspect of the High Council notes that took me by surprise was large the number of city ordinances discussed and passed relating to dogs and pigs. These were both interesting and humorous. For large section of the minutes, it seemed like animal ordinances were considered over and over. I have no expertise in the history of city ordinances/laws, and I wonder if similar animal statues were as common for cities during this time period (or maybe I missed a footnote explaining this). </p>
<p>I’m not as interested in early Mormonism as I am later time periods, there’s just something about the relative serenity of the Smoot hearings that entraps me. But I could not refrain from reading your book, as well as your previous essay published in the JMH on Habeas Corpus. Fantastic work. Maybe you’re thinking about an essay relating to the experience of animals in Nauvoo?</p>
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		<title>By: JDinger</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/book-review-john-s-dinger-the-nauvoo-city-and-high-council-minutes/comment-page-1/#comment-234926</link>
		<dc:creator>JDinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2012 20:15:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=10666#comment-234926</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have been asked why the minutes of the September 8th, 1844 trial of Sidney Rigdon are included in The Nauvoo High Council and City Council Minutes. This question usually is asked because they are not contained in “High council minutes, 1839 October-1845 October” or LR 3102 22 in the Church History Library.
 
They are included with the High Council minutes, because this was a meeting of the High Council. Just because they are recorded in the Historian’s Office General Church Minutes (CR 100 318) do not mean they are not from the High Council. In fact, looking at the documents themselves show that this is a meeting of the High Council, with the Twelve present and acting as witnesses. 
 
First, in the first set of minutes from CR 100 318, those in folder 26, the record shows that members of the twelve were “present,” while the High Council was “organized” by appointing someone at the head and even having absent members replaced, so a quorum was present and business could be conducted.
 
Also, in the printed version of the Trial, in the Times and Seasons, “their was a call for the question,” and at that point President Young “submitted the case to Bishop Whitney and the High Council.” Whitney was appointed to be head of the High Council at the beginning of the meeting. If the Twelve apostles were in charge of the meeting and it was not a High Council meeting, there would be no need to submit the question to the High Council.
 
Finally, the twelve did not vote on whether Rigdon should be “cut off.” While Phelps made the motion, the record states “It has now passed the high council unanimously.” (See folder 28 or page 523-24 in my volume.) It was the High Council who cut off Rigdon, not the Twelve Apostles, and thus, this is a High Council meeting, though not recorded in their minute book.
 
I hope this clears up some confusion as to my decision to include it in the High Council minutes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been asked why the minutes of the September 8th, 1844 trial of Sidney Rigdon are included in The Nauvoo High Council and City Council Minutes. This question usually is asked because they are not contained in “High council minutes, 1839 October-1845 October” or LR 3102 22 in the Church History Library.</p>
<p>They are included with the High Council minutes, because this was a meeting of the High Council. Just because they are recorded in the Historian’s Office General Church Minutes (CR 100 318) do not mean they are not from the High Council. In fact, looking at the documents themselves show that this is a meeting of the High Council, with the Twelve present and acting as witnesses. </p>
<p>First, in the first set of minutes from CR 100 318, those in folder 26, the record shows that members of the twelve were “present,” while the High Council was “organized” by appointing someone at the head and even having absent members replaced, so a quorum was present and business could be conducted.</p>
<p>Also, in the printed version of the Trial, in the Times and Seasons, “their was a call for the question,” and at that point President Young “submitted the case to Bishop Whitney and the High Council.” Whitney was appointed to be head of the High Council at the beginning of the meeting. If the Twelve apostles were in charge of the meeting and it was not a High Council meeting, there would be no need to submit the question to the High Council.</p>
<p>Finally, the twelve did not vote on whether Rigdon should be “cut off.” While Phelps made the motion, the record states “It has now passed the high council unanimously.” (See folder 28 or page 523-24 in my volume.) It was the High Council who cut off Rigdon, not the Twelve Apostles, and thus, this is a High Council meeting, though not recorded in their minute book.</p>
<p>I hope this clears up some confusion as to my decision to include it in the High Council minutes.</p>
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		<title>By: J. Stapley</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/book-review-john-s-dinger-the-nauvoo-city-and-high-council-minutes/comment-page-1/#comment-233454</link>
		<dc:creator>J. Stapley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 22:37:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=10666#comment-233454</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Rigdon had been initiated into the quorum, but he hadn&#039;t received all the rituals in the liturgy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rigdon had been initiated into the quorum, but he hadn&#8217;t received all the rituals in the liturgy.</p>
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		<title>By: JDinger</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/book-review-john-s-dinger-the-nauvoo-city-and-high-council-minutes/comment-page-1/#comment-233388</link>
		<dc:creator>JDinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 17:07:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=10666#comment-233388</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tod,

Rigdon was a member of the annointed Quorum and it was discussed at his trial.  At the trial, Orson Hyde stated:

&quot;Now if Bro[ther] Rigdon had got a revelation from his God that he was designated to be the President or guardian of this people[,] I think he would not have been in such a great hurry as to get the business over[,] for it was his desire &amp; intention to get the matters all over &amp; settled before the Twelve came[,] for if these men came here he was sure he would not accomplish his designs. Again there is a quorum here in this place that can test all the revelations before they can go forth to the public according to the order of our beloved Bro[ther] Joseph.&quot;

In the published minutes of the meeting in the Times and Seasons it is made clear he is talking about the Annointed Quorum:

&quot;There is a way by which all revelations purporting to be from God through any man can be tested. Brother Joseph gave us the plan[.] Says he, when all the quorums are assembled and organized in order, let the revelation be presented to the quorums[.] If it pass one[,] let it go to another, and if it pass that, to another, and so on until it has passed all the quorums; and if it pass the whole without running against a snag, you may know it is of God. But if it runs against a snag, then says he, it wants enquiring into: you must see to it. It is known to some who are present that there is a quorum organized where revelation can be tested. Brother Joseph said, let no revelation go to the people until it has been tested [t]here (Times and Seasons, Sept. 15, 1844, 649-50).&quot;

Others talk about the &quot;Quorum&quot; as well.

By the way, this section from the book is on Signature Books&#039; website: http://signaturebooks.com/2012/03/sidney-rigdon-trial/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tod,</p>
<p>Rigdon was a member of the annointed Quorum and it was discussed at his trial.  At the trial, Orson Hyde stated:</p>
<p>&#8220;Now if Bro[ther] Rigdon had got a revelation from his God that he was designated to be the President or guardian of this people[,] I think he would not have been in such a great hurry as to get the business over[,] for it was his desire &amp; intention to get the matters all over &amp; settled before the Twelve came[,] for if these men came here he was sure he would not accomplish his designs. Again there is a quorum here in this place that can test all the revelations before they can go forth to the public according to the order of our beloved Bro[ther] Joseph.&#8221;</p>
<p>In the published minutes of the meeting in the Times and Seasons it is made clear he is talking about the Annointed Quorum:</p>
<p>&#8220;There is a way by which all revelations purporting to be from God through any man can be tested. Brother Joseph gave us the plan[.] Says he, when all the quorums are assembled and organized in order, let the revelation be presented to the quorums[.] If it pass one[,] let it go to another, and if it pass that, to another, and so on until it has passed all the quorums; and if it pass the whole without running against a snag, you may know it is of God. But if it runs against a snag, then says he, it wants enquiring into: you must see to it. It is known to some who are present that there is a quorum organized where revelation can be tested. Brother Joseph said, let no revelation go to the people until it has been tested [t]here (Times and Seasons, Sept. 15, 1844, 649-50).&#8221;</p>
<p>Others talk about the &#8220;Quorum&#8221; as well.</p>
<p>By the way, this section from the book is on Signature Books&#8217; website: <a href="http://signaturebooks.com/2012/03/sidney-rigdon-trial/" rel="nofollow">http://signaturebooks.com/2012/03/sidney-rigdon-trial/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Tod Robbins</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/book-review-john-s-dinger-the-nauvoo-city-and-high-council-minutes/comment-page-1/#comment-233384</link>
		<dc:creator>Tod Robbins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 15:51:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=10666#comment-233384</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Ben! I&#039;ve forgotten whether Rigdon was initiated into the Annointed Quorum. How much did that play into the debate about continuing authority?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Ben! I&#8217;ve forgotten whether Rigdon was initiated into the Annointed Quorum. How much did that play into the debate about continuing authority?</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/book-review-john-s-dinger-the-nauvoo-city-and-high-council-minutes/comment-page-1/#comment-233265</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 03:06:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=10666#comment-233265</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the review, Ben.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the review, Ben.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben P</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/book-review-john-s-dinger-the-nauvoo-city-and-high-council-minutes/comment-page-1/#comment-233227</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2012 22:15:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=10666#comment-233227</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Note: thanks to a tip from Tom Kimball, I edited the post to reflect that while William Law was one of the individuals behind &lt;em&gt;The Expositor&lt;/em&gt;, he wasn&#039;t the editor.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Note: thanks to a tip from Tom Kimball, I edited the post to reflect that while William Law was one of the individuals behind <em>The Expositor</em>, he wasn&#8217;t the editor.</p>
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		<title>By: Hunter</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/book-review-john-s-dinger-the-nauvoo-city-and-high-council-minutes/comment-page-1/#comment-233226</link>
		<dc:creator>Hunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2012 22:13:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=10666#comment-233226</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for fleshing out two important moments in such an interesting and insightful way.  It&#039;s good to be reminded that history is made up of so many, many &quot;minute&quot; details.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for fleshing out two important moments in such an interesting and insightful way.  It&#8217;s good to be reminded that history is made up of so many, many &#8220;minute&#8221; details.</p>
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		<title>By: David G.</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/book-review-john-s-dinger-the-nauvoo-city-and-high-council-minutes/comment-page-1/#comment-233222</link>
		<dc:creator>David G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2012 20:41:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/?p=10666#comment-233222</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for this, Ben.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this, Ben.</p>
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