Comments on: Avoiding the “Dupes of the Mormon Delusion”: An Antebellum Unitarian Weighs in on Mormon Success http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/becoming-the-dupes-of-the-mormon-delusion-an-antebellum-unitarian-weighs-in-on-mormon-success/ Fri, 10 Feb 2012 00:20:29 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Ben http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/becoming-the-dupes-of-the-mormon-delusion-an-antebellum-unitarian-weighs-in-on-mormon-success/comment-page-1/#comment-28316 Ben Mon, 09 Feb 2009 07:41:58 +0000 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/becoming-the-dupes-of-the-mormon-delusion-an-antebellum-unitarian-weighs-in-on-mormon-success/#comment-28316 Rick: thanks for weighing in. You are square on in your take on Unitarian doctrine; it was in flux as early as the 20s. While many "old-school" leaders hoped to stay somewhat conservative, there were always progressives, most notably Emerson and Theodore Parker, who tried to press the boundaries. What made it so difficult to regulate doctrinal matters and come to a theological consensus in the Church was the fact that they were founded on the principles of ideological freedoms and refused to force ministers to teach a certain dogma. So, when Theodore Parker, for example, began to push the envelope on matters of foundational theology, all they could do is restrict other congregations where he could preach to. But the general consensus, at least until the 1870s and 80s, still accepted Christ as a personal redeemer. (And Rick, your grasp of early pamphlets is always impressive) Rick: thanks for weighing in. You are square on in your take on Unitarian doctrine; it was in flux as early as the 20s. While many “old-school” leaders hoped to stay somewhat conservative, there were always progressives, most notably Emerson and Theodore Parker, who tried to press the boundaries. What made it so difficult to regulate doctrinal matters and come to a theological consensus in the Church was the fact that they were founded on the principles of ideological freedoms and refused to force ministers to teach a certain dogma. So, when Theodore Parker, for example, began to push the envelope on matters of foundational theology, all they could do is restrict other congregations where he could preach to. But the general consensus, at least until the 1870s and 80s, still accepted Christ as a personal redeemer.

(And Rick, your grasp of early pamphlets is always impressive)

]]> By: Rick Grunder http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/becoming-the-dupes-of-the-mormon-delusion-an-antebellum-unitarian-weighs-in-on-mormon-success/comment-page-1/#comment-28272 Rick Grunder Sun, 08 Feb 2009 20:02:45 +0000 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/becoming-the-dupes-of-the-mormon-delusion-an-antebellum-unitarian-weighs-in-on-mormon-success/#comment-28272 Thanks for this post, Ben. Bernard Whitman's review of the Book of Mormon is one of the earliest and most important articles of that genre. I have just posted my <em>Mormon Parallels</em> entry for that item online, for anyone who may wish to have easy access to it, at <a href="http://www.rickgrunder.com/parallels/mp448.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.rickgrunder.com/parallels/mp448.pdf</a> In your footnote 3, you mention an evolving Unitarian view of Christ away from that of literal Redeemer. Even in the 1820s one finds ambiguity of expression among Unitarians, and different shades of meaning from writer to writer, as one might naturally expect. An interesting characterization occurs in a pamphlet by an obscure Pittsburgh Unitarian preacher, John Campbell, entitled <em>An Address to Professed Christians. In Two Parts. Part I. On the Unity of God. Part II. On the Reconciliation Made by Jesus Christ . . .</em> (Pittsburgh: Printed for the Publisher by Eichbaum & Johnston, and can be had at their bookstore, Second-Street, 1821). In the second portion of that pamphlet, pp. 17-40, John Campbell presents his Unitarian views of Jesus as the teacher whose "Word" reconciles man to God - as opposed to a view of atonement whereby Christ assumes the sins of others and pays their penalties. The Conclusion, pp. 41-43, deplores the unkind treatment of Unitarians by Trinitarians. John Campbell affirms that "Jesus is <em>the Christ</em>" and "the only mediator," p. 42, and hopes that opposing readers will not reply to his tract with "an answer, filled with abuse, and declamation . . . ," p. 43. Many non-Unitarians viewed such talk in simplistic terms, however. Inasmuch as Unitarians generally denied that Christ was literally a God, it was an easy step to accuse Unitarians of not believing in any atonement. Ironically, even Alexander Campbell received a concerned letter from Boone County, Missouri (November 23, 1825, signed, "T. T.") reporting that . . . <blockquote>. . . your influence is much injured in this country among the United Baptists, through a report that you belong to the Unitarians, and that you yourself are one. This report has been circulated by the Unitarians in this country.— . . . You will please do yourself the justice, and me the pleasure, of informing me of your standing . . . and your belief of our glorious Redeemer.</blockquote> Alexander Campbell replied by mentioning the many accusations which had been made privately against him in subtle innuendo. While supposedly rejecting sectarianism and intolerance, he yet insisted that he was "not a Socinian" (<em>i.e.</em>, Arian or Unitarian). At the end of his lengthy communication, he added: "P. S. There was a <em>John</em> Campbell in Pittsburgh, who was said to have been a Socinian. He is no longer one. He has gone to <em>Hades</em>, where there is not a Socinian, an Arian, nor a Trinitarian. —Alexander Campbell, "<em>Reply to 'T. T.'</em>," signed, "EDITOR. January 17, 1826." <em>The Christian Baptist</em> 3 (February 6, 1826). Copied here from <em>The Christian Baptist; Edited by Alexander Campbell . . . Revised by D. S. Burnet, from the Second Edition, with Mr. Campbell's Last Corrections . . .</em> (Cincinnati: D. S. Burnet, 1835), 216 (T. T. query), 217 (denial of being a Socinian), 218 (post script mentioning John Campbell). Thanks for this post, Ben. Bernard Whitman’s review of the Book of Mormon is one of the earliest and most important articles of that genre. I have just posted my Mormon Parallels entry for that item online, for anyone who may wish to have easy access to it, at http://www.rickgrunder.com/parallels/mp448.pdf

In your footnote 3, you mention an evolving Unitarian view of Christ away from that of literal Redeemer. Even in the 1820s one finds ambiguity of expression among Unitarians, and different shades of meaning from writer to writer, as one might naturally expect. An interesting characterization occurs in a pamphlet by an obscure Pittsburgh Unitarian preacher, John Campbell, entitled An Address to Professed Christians. In Two Parts. Part I. On the Unity of God. Part II. On the Reconciliation Made by Jesus Christ . . . (Pittsburgh: Printed for the Publisher by Eichbaum & Johnston, and can be had at their bookstore, Second-Street, 1821).

In the second portion of that pamphlet, pp. 17-40, John Campbell presents his Unitarian views of Jesus as the teacher whose “Word” reconciles man to God – as opposed to a view of atonement whereby Christ assumes the sins of others and pays their penalties. The Conclusion, pp. 41-43, deplores the unkind treatment of Unitarians by Trinitarians. John Campbell affirms that “Jesus is the Christ” and “the only mediator,” p. 42, and hopes that opposing readers will not reply to his tract with “an answer, filled with abuse, and declamation . . . ,” p. 43.

Many non-Unitarians viewed such talk in simplistic terms, however. Inasmuch as Unitarians generally denied that Christ was literally a God, it was an easy step to accuse Unitarians of not believing in any atonement. Ironically, even Alexander Campbell received a concerned letter from Boone County, Missouri (November 23, 1825, signed, “T. T.”) reporting that . . .

. . . your influence is much injured in this country among the United Baptists, through a report that you belong to the Unitarians, and that you yourself are one. This report has been circulated by the Unitarians in this country.— . . . You will please do yourself the justice, and me the pleasure, of informing me of your standing . . . and your belief of our glorious Redeemer.

Alexander Campbell replied by mentioning the many accusations which had been made privately against him in subtle innuendo. While supposedly rejecting sectarianism and intolerance, he yet insisted that he was “not a Socinian” (i.e., Arian or Unitarian). At the end of his lengthy communication, he added: “P. S. There was a John Campbell in Pittsburgh, who was said to have been a Socinian. He is no longer one. He has gone to Hades, where there is not a Socinian, an Arian, nor a Trinitarian. —Alexander Campbell, “Reply to ‘T. T.’,” signed, “EDITOR. January 17, 1826.” The Christian Baptist 3 (February 6, 1826). Copied here from The Christian Baptist; Edited by Alexander Campbell . . . Revised by D. S. Burnet, from the Second Edition, with Mr. Campbell’s Last Corrections . . . (Cincinnati: D. S. Burnet, 1835), 216 (T. T. query), 217 (denial of being a Socinian), 218 (post script mentioning John Campbell).

]]> By: David G. http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/becoming-the-dupes-of-the-mormon-delusion-an-antebellum-unitarian-weighs-in-on-mormon-success/comment-page-1/#comment-28167 David G. Sat, 07 Feb 2009 05:19:20 +0000 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/becoming-the-dupes-of-the-mormon-delusion-an-antebellum-unitarian-weighs-in-on-mormon-success/#comment-28167 Thanks for checking, Ben. I figured it would fit in well with Spencer's argument in that chapter. Thanks for introducing us to Whitman. Thanks for checking, Ben. I figured it would fit in well with Spencer’s argument in that chapter. Thanks for introducing us to Whitman.

]]> By: Ben http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/becoming-the-dupes-of-the-mormon-delusion-an-antebellum-unitarian-weighs-in-on-mormon-success/comment-page-1/#comment-28165 Ben Sat, 07 Feb 2009 05:13:14 +0000 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/becoming-the-dupes-of-the-mormon-delusion-an-antebellum-unitarian-weighs-in-on-mormon-success/#comment-28165 David, I finally got off my lazy rump and looked at Fluhman's dissy. It looks like the sperry symposium paper is mostly based off of his chapter of Delusion; it still only deals with the spiritual gifts (particularly gift of tongues), which is an understandably important portion of Whitman's review. The rest of this 1834 text merely confirms everything else Fluhman says in the rest of the chapter, though. David, I finally got off my lazy rump and looked at Fluhman’s dissy. It looks like the sperry symposium paper is mostly based off of his chapter of Delusion; it still only deals with the spiritual gifts (particularly gift of tongues), which is an understandably important portion of Whitman’s review. The rest of this 1834 text merely confirms everything else Fluhman says in the rest of the chapter, though.

]]> By: David G. http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/becoming-the-dupes-of-the-mormon-delusion-an-antebellum-unitarian-weighs-in-on-mormon-success/comment-page-1/#comment-28159 David G. Sat, 07 Feb 2009 02:58:25 +0000 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/becoming-the-dupes-of-the-mormon-delusion-an-antebellum-unitarian-weighs-in-on-mormon-success/#comment-28159 My guess is he uses Whitman in his chapter on Delusion. My guess is he uses Whitman in his chapter on Delusion.

]]> By: Ben http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/becoming-the-dupes-of-the-mormon-delusion-an-antebellum-unitarian-weighs-in-on-mormon-success/comment-page-1/#comment-28155 Ben Sat, 07 Feb 2009 02:25:43 +0000 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/becoming-the-dupes-of-the-mormon-delusion-an-antebellum-unitarian-weighs-in-on-mormon-success/#comment-28155 Thanks, Ardis. David, great questions. Just at a short glance, his "Crisis of American Spirituality" article in the latest Sperry Symposium volume uses Whitman as an example of Protestants accusing early Mormons of enthusiasm and false spiritual gifts (the third of the three points I mention above). I'm not sure if he deals with it in his dissertation. Anyone know? Thanks, Ardis.

David, great questions. Just at a short glance, his “Crisis of American Spirituality” article in the latest Sperry Symposium volume uses Whitman as an example of Protestants accusing early Mormons of enthusiasm and false spiritual gifts (the third of the three points I mention above).

I’m not sure if he deals with it in his dissertation. Anyone know?

]]> By: David G. http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/becoming-the-dupes-of-the-mormon-delusion-an-antebellum-unitarian-weighs-in-on-mormon-success/comment-page-1/#comment-28154 David G. Sat, 07 Feb 2009 01:49:51 +0000 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/becoming-the-dupes-of-the-mormon-delusion-an-antebellum-unitarian-weighs-in-on-mormon-success/#comment-28154 Thanks for the review, Ben. Do you know how Fluhman uses Whitman? Thanks for the review, Ben. Do you know how Fluhman uses Whitman?

]]> By: Ardis Parshall http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/becoming-the-dupes-of-the-mormon-delusion-an-antebellum-unitarian-weighs-in-on-mormon-success/comment-page-1/#comment-28149 Ardis Parshall Sat, 07 Feb 2009 00:22:47 +0000 http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/becoming-the-dupes-of-the-mormon-delusion-an-antebellum-unitarian-weighs-in-on-mormon-success/#comment-28149 Being the dupe of a delusion is a refreshing break from being the knowing participant in an evil plot to promote a cult. If only those Mormon preachers weren't so fluent and their prayers uttered with less fervor! Nice post, Ben. Thanks. Being the dupe of a delusion is a refreshing break from being the knowing participant in an evil plot to promote a cult. If only those Mormon preachers weren’t so fluent and their prayers uttered with less fervor!

Nice post, Ben. Thanks.

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