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	<title>Comments on: Africa, Anxiety for Ancestors, and Mormon Work for the Dead: Considerations after Jenkins&#8217;s Tanner Lecture</title>
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	<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/africa-anxiety-for-ancestors-and-mormon-work-for-the-dead-considerations-after-jenkinss-tanner-lecture/</link>
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		<title>By: Juvenile Instructor &#187; The Journal of Mormon History, Spring 2009 (35:2), Part 1</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/africa-anxiety-for-ancestors-and-mormon-work-for-the-dead-considerations-after-jenkinss-tanner-lecture/comment-page-1/#comment-41933</link>
		<dc:creator>Juvenile Instructor &#187; The Journal of Mormon History, Spring 2009 (35:2), Part 1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 14:28:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/africa-anxiety-for-ancestors-and-mormon-work-for-the-dead-considerations-after-jenkinss-tanner-lecture/#comment-41933</guid>
		<description>[...] Christian denominations as it continues to grow. We discussed a rumored counterpoint to this paper a while back. Now having read the paper, I&#8217;m not sure that the aforementioned rumor diffuses the points [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Christian denominations as it continues to grow. We discussed a rumored counterpoint to this paper a while back. Now having read the paper, I&#8217;m not sure that the aforementioned rumor diffuses the points [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Juvenile Instructor &#187; From the Archives: Posts You Might Have Missed, June-August 2008</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/africa-anxiety-for-ancestors-and-mormon-work-for-the-dead-considerations-after-jenkinss-tanner-lecture/comment-page-1/#comment-40239</link>
		<dc:creator>Juvenile Instructor &#187; From the Archives: Posts You Might Have Missed, June-August 2008</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:20:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/africa-anxiety-for-ancestors-and-mormon-work-for-the-dead-considerations-after-jenkinss-tanner-lecture/#comment-40239</guid>
		<description>[...] Africa, Anxiety for Ancestors, and Mormon Work For The Dead: Considerations after Jenkins&#8217; Tan... [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Africa, Anxiety for Ancestors, and Mormon Work For The Dead: Considerations after Jenkins&#8217; Tan&#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/africa-anxiety-for-ancestors-and-mormon-work-for-the-dead-considerations-after-jenkinss-tanner-lecture/comment-page-1/#comment-8906</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 16:58:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/africa-anxiety-for-ancestors-and-mormon-work-for-the-dead-considerations-after-jenkinss-tanner-lecture/#comment-8906</guid>
		<description>One more thought: Though most likely not intentional, I wonder if the church&#039;s rumored intentionally-slowed growth rate might serve as a means of separating it from other Christians in Africa? Jenkins mentioned that religion in Africa (at least missionary religions) are generally categorized into a simple Christian vs. Muslim dichotomy. This intentional growth rate could serve as a means of establishing some boundary markers to differentiate Mormonism from the other Christian denominations also experience rapid growth in Africa.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One more thought: Though most likely not intentional, I wonder if the church&#8217;s rumored intentionally-slowed growth rate might serve as a means of separating it from other Christians in Africa? Jenkins mentioned that religion in Africa (at least missionary religions) are generally categorized into a simple Christian vs. Muslim dichotomy. This intentional growth rate could serve as a means of establishing some boundary markers to differentiate Mormonism from the other Christian denominations also experience rapid growth in Africa.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/africa-anxiety-for-ancestors-and-mormon-work-for-the-dead-considerations-after-jenkinss-tanner-lecture/comment-page-1/#comment-8905</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 16:55:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/africa-anxiety-for-ancestors-and-mormon-work-for-the-dead-considerations-after-jenkinss-tanner-lecture/#comment-8905</guid>
		<description>Sorry for coming late to the discussion, Stan. I read it when you posted it, but didn&#039;t get around to commenting until now. 

J. Michael&#039;s contribution to the discussion is encouraging to me. I wonder, though, whether we&#039;re only looking at the issue superficially if we examine it in a white American/black African paradigm. Because of the many (and often competing) tribal affiliations in Africa, it would interesting to examine whether certain tribes are more represented in church leadership/membership. Class also probably factors into this discussion. 

As a hypothetical, are those who come from more Westernized tribes more likely to be bishops or branch presidents or relief society presidents? Because this Westernization is often related to class status, what does this say? And, in the end, class, wealth, and Westernization may very well be nothing but subcategories of &quot;blackness,&quot; which puts us right back where we started at the beginning of the discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry for coming late to the discussion, Stan. I read it when you posted it, but didn&#8217;t get around to commenting until now. </p>
<p>J. Michael&#8217;s contribution to the discussion is encouraging to me. I wonder, though, whether we&#8217;re only looking at the issue superficially if we examine it in a white American/black African paradigm. Because of the many (and often competing) tribal affiliations in Africa, it would interesting to examine whether certain tribes are more represented in church leadership/membership. Class also probably factors into this discussion. </p>
<p>As a hypothetical, are those who come from more Westernized tribes more likely to be bishops or branch presidents or relief society presidents? Because this Westernization is often related to class status, what does this say? And, in the end, class, wealth, and Westernization may very well be nothing but subcategories of &#8220;blackness,&#8221; which puts us right back where we started at the beginning of the discussion.</p>
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		<title>By: stan</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/africa-anxiety-for-ancestors-and-mormon-work-for-the-dead-considerations-after-jenkinss-tanner-lecture/comment-page-1/#comment-8873</link>
		<dc:creator>stan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jun 2008 19:18:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/africa-anxiety-for-ancestors-and-mormon-work-for-the-dead-considerations-after-jenkinss-tanner-lecture/#comment-8873</guid>
		<description>Ardis: Thanks for sharing your hobbies: very inspiring.

Seth R: I don&#039;t know that I&#039;d necessarily cite the Zulu man as an example of zeal without knowledge or commitment--without knowledge of a few procedural policies, sure, but I&#039;d say he understands and feels quite deeply the importance of temple work, and that with an urgent literality that I think is much less prevalent among most westerners. 

But I can see your point generally speaking, and it is just as pertinent here in the U.S. Of the people I baptized on my mission here in the states--in classic missionary-guide style, I don&#039;t recall the number but lets see, there were the Jones and the Smiths and...--only a few have stayed actively involved. Retention is a major issue everywhere.

J. Stapley: Great parallel. The Zulu man&#039;s dream also seems to fit nicely in the early visionary culture, which, of course, has not completely died out but has modified over time here in the States--many people still talk of feeling someone&#039;s presence as they do their work in the temple.

J. Michael: Thanks again for your observations. Nothing can quite compare to on-the-ground experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ardis: Thanks for sharing your hobbies: very inspiring.</p>
<p>Seth R: I don&#8217;t know that I&#8217;d necessarily cite the Zulu man as an example of zeal without knowledge or commitment&#8211;without knowledge of a few procedural policies, sure, but I&#8217;d say he understands and feels quite deeply the importance of temple work, and that with an urgent literality that I think is much less prevalent among most westerners. </p>
<p>But I can see your point generally speaking, and it is just as pertinent here in the U.S. Of the people I baptized on my mission here in the states&#8211;in classic missionary-guide style, I don&#8217;t recall the number but lets see, there were the Jones and the Smiths and&#8230;&#8211;only a few have stayed actively involved. Retention is a major issue everywhere.</p>
<p>J. Stapley: Great parallel. The Zulu man&#8217;s dream also seems to fit nicely in the early visionary culture, which, of course, has not completely died out but has modified over time here in the States&#8211;many people still talk of feeling someone&#8217;s presence as they do their work in the temple.</p>
<p>J. Michael: Thanks again for your observations. Nothing can quite compare to on-the-ground experience.</p>
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		<title>By: J. Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/africa-anxiety-for-ancestors-and-mormon-work-for-the-dead-considerations-after-jenkinss-tanner-lecture/comment-page-1/#comment-8846</link>
		<dc:creator>J. Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jun 2008 00:08:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/africa-anxiety-for-ancestors-and-mormon-work-for-the-dead-considerations-after-jenkinss-tanner-lecture/#comment-8846</guid>
		<description>Stan -

I presided in East Africa for three years, but have been home for almost a year now.  The policies I mentioned seemed unfair to me initially, but I soon saw the wisdom and strongly supported them.  I have no first-hand experience in West Africa.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stan -</p>
<p>I presided in East Africa for three years, but have been home for almost a year now.  The policies I mentioned seemed unfair to me initially, but I soon saw the wisdom and strongly supported them.  I have no first-hand experience in West Africa.</p>
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		<title>By: J. Stapley</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/africa-anxiety-for-ancestors-and-mormon-work-for-the-dead-considerations-after-jenkinss-tanner-lecture/comment-page-1/#comment-8831</link>
		<dc:creator>J. Stapley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 16:33:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/africa-anxiety-for-ancestors-and-mormon-work-for-the-dead-considerations-after-jenkinss-tanner-lecture/#comment-8831</guid>
		<description>My impression during Dr. Jenkins talk (and I agree that it was amazing) was that he was describing something very similar to Christianity in Early America.  Enthusiasm, Revivalism and a wild-west style doctrinal innovation.  And my thought was, that everything that is appealing to the African seekers are Mormonism&#039;s response to that early American context.  I imagined that if they had a Kirtland of their own, the Church would explode with growth.  It is just that Kirtland had its own problems, mass apostasy among others.  The question then becomes for me: is it possible to begin as a fully formed Church without the Kirtland era growing pains?  I guess the Mormon presence in Africa answers that to a certain extent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My impression during Dr. Jenkins talk (and I agree that it was amazing) was that he was describing something very similar to Christianity in Early America.  Enthusiasm, Revivalism and a wild-west style doctrinal innovation.  And my thought was, that everything that is appealing to the African seekers are Mormonism&#8217;s response to that early American context.  I imagined that if they had a Kirtland of their own, the Church would explode with growth.  It is just that Kirtland had its own problems, mass apostasy among others.  The question then becomes for me: is it possible to begin as a fully formed Church without the Kirtland era growing pains?  I guess the Mormon presence in Africa answers that to a certain extent.</p>
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		<title>By: Seth R.</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/africa-anxiety-for-ancestors-and-mormon-work-for-the-dead-considerations-after-jenkinss-tanner-lecture/comment-page-1/#comment-8827</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 15:19:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/africa-anxiety-for-ancestors-and-mormon-work-for-the-dead-considerations-after-jenkinss-tanner-lecture/#comment-8827</guid>
		<description>On the other hand, if a good drum accompaniment is the only thing holding us back, why not just buy some drums and get moving?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the other hand, if a good drum accompaniment is the only thing holding us back, why not just buy some drums and get moving?</p>
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		<title>By: Seth R.</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/africa-anxiety-for-ancestors-and-mormon-work-for-the-dead-considerations-after-jenkinss-tanner-lecture/comment-page-1/#comment-8826</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 15:18:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/africa-anxiety-for-ancestors-and-mormon-work-for-the-dead-considerations-after-jenkinss-tanner-lecture/#comment-8826</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know much about the rumor Stan mentioned one way or the other. I would just note that rapid growth is not always good growth. Sometimes it turns out being very shallow and faddish.

The Zulu man beating on the temple doors is a good example actually. Zeal without knowledge. Or even necessarily commitment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know much about the rumor Stan mentioned one way or the other. I would just note that rapid growth is not always good growth. Sometimes it turns out being very shallow and faddish.</p>
<p>The Zulu man beating on the temple doors is a good example actually. Zeal without knowledge. Or even necessarily commitment.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Barney</title>
		<link>http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/africa-anxiety-for-ancestors-and-mormon-work-for-the-dead-considerations-after-jenkinss-tanner-lecture/comment-page-1/#comment-8823</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Barney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:26:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juvenileinstructor.org/africa-anxiety-for-ancestors-and-mormon-work-for-the-dead-considerations-after-jenkinss-tanner-lecture/#comment-8823</guid>
		<description>Ardis, your doing the temple work for the people you study is simply awesome.  I love that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ardis, your doing the temple work for the people you study is simply awesome.  I love that.</p>
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